I hereby promise not to start any further threads regarding British and/or Euro womens breast size.
Well I think Gus summed it all up rather nicely when he said:
And noting with some degree of sadness assurances from our man TC above in his generous offer for some specific scope to resolve these perceived grievances, would it be too much to ask for a seperate forum where bitter old retards can play? It has been flagged several times.
HG
I think I read that somewhere else today.
I don’t see forumosa as being anything other than a space for banter. It frequently throws up a lot of very interesting stuff and is inhabited by a lot of interesting people. It’s not vacuous. There is probably a bit of wink wink nudge nudge, but who really cares about that? It’s like a sober BBQ (perish the thought). The worst aspect of it in my opinion is the bullying of posters for their innocuous foibles. I don’t get that. It truly lacks courage. I don’t believe it is particularly sexist, at least not explicitly. We are fundamentally animals so sex is a big part of our lives. Getting the balance right in that tapestry takes a lot of empathy and compassion, and a genuine desire for harmony. If you have or at least aspire to those qualities, I think you can prod the beast to get as many laughs out of it as you can.
it’s not all juvenile.[/quote]
You omitted the qualifier (marked in bold) from the quote:
Why do you think it had anything to do with you being a women? I have seen similar reponses addressed at men, too.
I don’t disagree with you, although what you say here is true of just about any thing where people gather together. I certainly saw a lot of it back in New York - in college and in the workplace - and in Singapore and Manila. I’ve seen it at the various church communities I’ve involved myself in over the years. Here in Shanghai, we’d call it guanxi, but it’s hardly a Chinese or Taiwanese or Forumosan concept[/quote] No that’s just called “elitism” or snobbery. And it occurs often enough here to shut down any new life/breath or energy to enter in this creation. Actually I’m insulted that you would even suggest ‘guanxi’ at play here. I would need guanxi to have respect from posters?[/quote]
Actually, it’s the reverse: In almost any situation, guanxi is a result of respect, not the other way around. The more people know who you are, and respect the posts you make, the more guanxi you have. Some of our most respected posters are moderators, and when they make a suggestion, it is listened to very carefully. Long-standing members of our community like you, people who have gotten involved not just online but in real life as well, also have this respect. Anonymous members with a mean streak do not gain the respect of their fellow posters, moderators or admin, so their suggestions carry less weight. All this is as it should be.
Forumosa is a place where discussions range from intellectually stimulating discussions of important high-brow topics all the way to bawdy, brainless yet fun banter. Everything but the truly offensive (racism, spam, personal attacks, and other things listed in the rules) is tolerated. We can choose which ones we want to engage in.
Yes, there are some A-holes on this site. If there’s one constant in the world, it’s that A-holes will always exist. Fortunately, in a forum such as this, there are ways to deal with them.
(One thing: when men are talking, the topic of boobs will eventually be broached. No harm is intended.)
I guess I just don’t understand.
Forumosa is like a house party. There’s many groups, large and small, standing, sitting around the house. Some are drinking, some eating, some playing pool, and some by the pool. Some are girls only, some are guys, and some are mixed crowds. Some are cliquish, some are British, some are British losers, some are handsome Canadians.
Some are in a room behind closed doors talking dirty jokes. Some are in the dining room arguing politics.
It’s your choice to go into that room and participate or not. If you don’t like it, don’t open the door, don’t walk into that room. If you like, start your own group, invite some people to chat. You can ignore the jerk in the garage, because… you’re not in the garage. (unless he’s following you around the house which is a different matter)
But it doesn’t mean you have to leave the party. And it doesn’t mean that a few bad apples represent the entire house.
… maybe the Muslims were right. Maybe we do need to segregate the sexes. This is just too much discord.
(FYI, this language is way more toned down than in RL of some conversations guys would really say, no matter how “classy” you think they are.)
I don’t disagree with you, although what you say here is true of just about any thing where people gather together. I certainly saw a lot of it back in New York - in college and in the workplace - and in Singapore and Manila. I’ve seen it at the various church communities I’ve involved myself in over the years. Here in Shanghai, we’d call it guanxi, but it’s hardly a Chinese or Taiwanese or Forumosan concept[/quote] No that’s just called “elitism” or snobbery. And it occurs often enough here to shut down any new life/breath or energy to enter in this creation. Actually I’m insulted that you would even suggest ‘guanxi’ at play here. I would need guanxi to have respect from posters?[/quote]
Actually, it’s the reverse: In almost any situation, guanxi is a result of respect, not the other way around. The more people know who you are, and respect the posts you make, the more guanxi you have. Some of our most respected posters are moderators, and when they make a suggestion, it is listened to very carefully. Long-standing members of our community like you, people who have gotten involved not just online but in real life as well, also have this respect. Anonymous members with a mean streak do not gain the respect of their fellow posters, moderators or admin, so their suggestions carry less weight. All this is as it should be.[/quote]
So are you suggesting that I have little respect on this board?
I don’t disagree with you, although what you say here is true of just about any thing where people gather together. I certainly saw a lot of it back in New York - in college and in the workplace - and in Singapore and Manila. I’ve seen it at the various church communities I’ve involved myself in over the years. Here in Shanghai, we’d call it guanxi, but it’s hardly a Chinese or Taiwanese or Forumosan concept[/quote] No that’s just called “elitism” or snobbery. And it occurs often enough here to shut down any new life/breath or energy to enter in this creation. Actually I’m insulted that you would even suggest ‘guanxi’ at play here. I would need guanxi to have respect from posters?[/quote]
Actually, it’s the reverse: In almost any situation, guanxi is a result of respect, not the other way around. The more people know who you are, and respect the posts you make, the more guanxi you have. Some of our most respected posters are moderators, and when they make a suggestion, it is listened to very carefully. Long-standing members of our community like you, people who have gotten involved not just online but in real life as well, also have this respect. Anonymous members with a mean streak do not gain the respect of their fellow posters, moderators or admin, so their suggestions carry less weight. All this is as it should be.[/quote]
So are you suggesting that I have little respect on this board?[/quote]He’s saying exactly the opposite! He said that you have the kind of respect he’s talking about, because you’ve gotten involved in real life as well as online.
He’s saying exactly the opposite! He said that you have the kind of respect he’s talking about, because you’ve gotten involved in real life as well as online.[/quote]
Yes, that’s right.
The ratio of bored foreign men to women is greater in Taiwan.
How many more men are here in Taiwan sitting at an office job all day long, complainin to other men who are in the same boat about their Taiwanese cow-irkers, girlfriends, wives, in-laws, daily lives. There are just way fewer women in the same type of jobs and living here for the same reasons as their male counterparts. Once you get a whole bunch of people in the same boat they hang on to each other for dear life, in this case, logging on to the F.com water cooler 24/7. It’s like if they stick together, their suffering doesn’t feel as awful cuz every other guy is suffering the same fate. 
Women, well, they don’t need to chit chat over the computer. They do it in real life. They need the physical intimacy of human interaction. Women need to see the other person’s reactions and emotions. Plus, women have a life. 
Forumosa to me is really a great community, I know it will always be there when I need it, but I’m also one of the lucky ones who didn’t need it to survive in Taiwan on a daily basis. It was comforting, but I could function without it, too. And maybe I was just too awesome, but I didn’t feel the need for one upmanship and I didn’t need people to agree with me on everything to feel popular. I didn’t feel the need to respond with smart alecky one liner comments to every single thread. When I read threads like that day after day I just think how so sad. And we all know what’s missing in the lives of people like that.
(Most posters are not like this, but there are quite a few.)
Ok, I’m using too much “I” again. There I go. Again. Have a good day, folks.
Been a busy bee, this morning, so I’ll summarise again, rather than responding to each point in turn.
If people don’t like sexism, they can go somewhere else. As Erhu points out, this is what the female posters have done, in droves. Jack Burton’s analogy about the party was interesting. Are parties with no girls more fun then?
foumosa is not a democracy, yet if there’s a problem, the targets (I’m loath to say ‘victims’) have to ignore it or find a way to deal with it themselves. It helps to ‘know someone’.
TC has said something worthwhile; he won’t post about breasts. Chris said that men always talk about breasts. Fine guys, just don’t make comments about a woman’s (Erhu’s) that many of you have sat down to eat with. It is not ‘fun’ or ‘banter’, it’s disgusting and insulting and degrading.
Erm, lots of you just don’t get it or don’t understand.
There aren’t many women left to argue this one, so the personal attacks are coming thick and fast.
Have I got it all? Don’t worry boys, nama, erhu and buttercup probably just all got their periods at the same time. Y’know that scene in ‘Ghostbusters’ when they are trying to kill Mr Stay Puft and then they combine their rays to become more powerful? It’s kind of like that.
Let me know if I missed anything!
(ps, the PM with the flying monkeys was hilarious!!! Thank you! Yes, I’m the Wicked Witch of the West (or East?). Who are you, then? Dorothy? The scarecrow?)
The poster who made those comments is a dickhead anyway. Is that even a secret?
That thread is here. One guy, currently under suspension for undue rudeness in another forum, responded ad hominem (ad feminem?) in a thread erhu created about men’s breasts, suggesting she was jealous of the large men’s boobs she saw every day. She replied that hers were perfect. He replied that he had heard that as well. Buttercup chimes in that American men are big tits, as opposed to having them.
Frankly, I don’t see any double standard going on here. I see banter from both sides with a lot of “nudge, nudge, wink, wink” going on. You can’t play the game AND complain about it at the same time.
Yes indeed, and despite their smaller number they seem to be holding up rather well, as frankly the only personal attacks I’m seeing here are those from the women folk.
When can we have a men’s forum?
HG
He’s saying exactly the opposite! He said that you have the kind of respect he’s talking about, because you’ve gotten involved in real life as well as online.[/quote]
Yes, that’s right.[/quote]
Save it Tosty,the reading comprehension will be worked on But thank you Joe and Mao for letting me know that I am respected here.
The poster who made those comments is a dickhead anyway. Is that even a secret?[/quote]
I nominate this for Classic Post!
Cupper, I am no stranger to how you are feeling. I’ve been attacked and attacked back. I’ve been suspended, banned, tarnished and feathered. I’ve smurfed until I was blue in the face. I’ve broken the rules and circumnavigated the defenses. Yet somehow still here. The beauty of this place is that you can glean insight into the real them. I now know who the dickheads are. So, whenever I could, I dicked their heads. It was fun. Watching dickheads fly off into rages is always so amusing.
And now…as in all disgruntling matters, I turn again to the wisdom of The Steppenwolf. Now I know someone as erudite as Ms B gets my drift, but for those less literary, you may also draw inspiration from Bill Murray’s motivational chant in Meatballs.
Maybe another key to success for this e-sland (the “s” is silent) can be found in My Ishmael. Building on the House Party parable, let’s look at the metaphor of the tribal strategy of resource competition (respect being the resource sought after): The Erratic Retaliator; Give as good as you get, but don’t be too predictable. In this way, everyone can survive without the need for laws that force e-ple (electronic people…chiefly:US) to not do what they naturally will do. Instead of rules, we need solutions to deal with the blowback. E-ple are going to be dickheads. It’s in our nature. Instead of outlawing dickheadedness, devise methods for dealing with the fallout, so the harmony of community can continue. Unlock the food today*.
*Okay, not exactly sure yet how that helps. Don’t know what the food is a metaphor for yet, but I’ll keep working on it.
Another thought occurs to me. I remember railing against The Star Chamber. I thought it elitist. I believe I referred to it as a kangaroo court. Man did I get it from all sides. But where is that chamber today? Maoman assures me that it is no longer. I don’t think he’s that “taike” (yet) to lie to me.
They do listen. Even to those they despise (at the time).
That thread is here. One guy, currently under suspension for undue rudeness in another forum, responded ad hominem (ad feminem?) in a thread erhu created about men’s breasts, suggesting she was jealous of the large men’s boobs she saw every day. She replied that hers were perfect. He replied that he had heard that as well. Buttercup chimes in that American men are big tits, as opposed to having them.
Frankly, I don’t see any double standard going on here. I see banter from both sides with a lot of “nudge, nudge, wink, wink” going on. You can’t play the game AND complain about it at the same time.[/quote]
Exactly. I never saw that thread till just now, but if a guy started a thread about penis sizes he shouldn’t be surprised if someone made a wise crack about his. Same goes for a woman starting a thread on breast sizes. Not saying it was a nice comment, but is it really a great surprise someone made a comment about her tits after she started the thread?
If people don’t like the hostility of the IP forum they should stay out of it (something I learned a while back). If they don’t enjoy sexual banter they shouldn’t participate in sexual threads (or start them). Otherwise, there are infinite opportunities for women (and men) to discuss pizza restaurants, dogs, calligraphy, costco, photography, bicycling, bird watching, symphony orchestras, or anything else, with very little fear of racist, sexist or hostile remarks.
Jack Burton’s good post was misconstrued. He wasn’t suggesting forumosa would be more fun without women. I’m sure most posters agree (as we’ve discussed many times) that it would be great if there were more female posters. He was just saying, if you don’t like the discussion in the garage, don’t go in the garage; participate in other discussions instead (seems to me that by far the overwhelming majority of all threads and posts are perfectly civil and inoffensive). Seems fair enough to me, given that the forum does prohibit egregious racist, sexist or offensive remarks, delete them and suspend or terminate the offenders, as appropriate. What more should they do?
I wholeheartedly agree with you - that is, about making an insulting comment about a specific person in the forum who said nothing to deserve such an attack. I must say, however, that Erhu handled it with class, wit and aplomb. (And that’s not to imply that you lack these qualities, Buttercup!)