In the past few years, I’ve learned that the term “Taiwanese” has become very exclusive.
The obvious candidates, the aboriginals, are not included because they don’t vote DPP, and apparently voting DPP is one of the best tests for determining whether somebody is “Taiwanese”. And of course, according to the veep’s way of thinking, since the aboriginals can’t move any higher up the peaks of the mountains without causing mudslides, they really ought to be resettled somewhere more appropriate like South America.
People who have married non-Taiwanese spouses are also apparently counted out. As a foreign spouse, I of course don’t have any expectations for myself. But is my wife now considered suspect? Because of me and our kids, she could probably “run at any time” to come to America if the PRC invaded.
People who have two passports are counted out. So, that probably brings the numbers down to just a few. My kids have dual citizenship and are of mixed race, so apparently they will never be counted in even if my boy risks his neck to potentially defend Taiwan with his life via compulsory military service.
People who have ever held a green card or permanent residency somewhere else are counted out because they might “run somewhere” if Taiwan got into trouble. Given that nations around the world with generally favorable relations with Taiwan also often recognize refugees as well as offer sanctuary to a wide range of persons who have irked Beijing, I wouldn’t be surprised if both candidates would find a wide range of options of places to flee to if they wished.
That said, what defines to you “Taiwanese” enough?
Isn’t speaking Taiwanese a requirement ? I mean just being born here, loving your country and speaking the official language of the country, just doesn’t quite seem enough.
Don’t people of all countries engage in the same crap?
Are you still American?
After all, you’ve got a passport (freak), learned a foreign language, moved to a foreign country, married a foreign woman and work for a foreign company. Do you even pay taxes in America? Have you ever even flown a yellow flag to support our troops? What the hell do you do to support our country that makes you think you deserve to be called an American? Haven’t you already demonstrated you can no longer be trusted to uphold the laws, values and basic principles that our great christian nation was founded upon? How can we know you’re not selling military intelligence to the Chinese or valuable proprietary business secrets to the Taiwanese?
Not only that, but I’ve seen some of the things you’ve posted on this forum, critical of our government during a time of war. Do you know what that does to the morale of our soldiers who are risking their lives to make the world safe for your kind of people? You know, there’s an old saying in Texas or I know it’s Tennessee or Crawford, you’re either with us or you’re a goddamned extremo-fascist-commie-liberal-goodfornothing-terrorist sympathizer, and it’s pretty damned clear which of three you am.
[quote=“Mother Theresa”]Don’t people of all countries engage in the same crap?
Are you still American?[/quote]
It’s different in Taiwan: the term “Taiwanese” has a different set of connotations in Taiwan that the term “American” has in the US.
There are many Waishengren, some I know personally, who are born and bred in Taiwan, but who don’t consider themselves “Taiwanese”, despite being “from Taiwan” and being “ROC citizens”. This is because to many people, the term “Taiwanese” means “Hoklo”.
On the other hand, I’ve never heard of any US citizen of any political or ethnic stripe who doesn’t consider himself “American”.
the term “racist”, as most western countries understand it, doesn’t exist in chinese (apart from maybe the term zhong zhu qi si, which is a kind of 60’s equivalent of racial prejudice, with a similar ring to “colour prejudice” - hardly useful for distinguishing between Han Chinese who are the same colour & genetic race).
My point being, most of those who consider themselves “taiwanese” don’t have a clue how blatantly racist they are. This place reminds me of Kosovo sometimes. Ethinic cleansing is a long way off perhaps, but the seeds are certainly here.
& let’s not forget where such entrenched hatred or envy of minorities can lead - especially in a democracy. Hitler was elected precisely on a ticket espousing ethnic purity & hatred of minorities - jews, gypsies, turks etc. etc.
it will be a sad day tomorrow if those forces get a leader who champions such a cause.
That us or them thinking seems to have died down and of course will die out completely in the decades to come as everyone can claim at least parents who were born here. Add to that the hundreds of thousands of SE Asian children who won’t likely accept second class status. With its aging pop Taiwan will not have the luxury of being so exclusive in the future.
And countries this wealthy don’t engage in ethnic cleansing. The hate is just not that deep. It’s more like the hatred of liberals and conservatives in the states. Mostly just a lot of hot air.
Mucha Man rekons “wealthy don’t engage in ethnic cleansing”. Take a look at Northern Ireland, and you’ll see it isn’t so; its per capita is higher than taiwan, yet throughout the 70s, 80s & 90s thousands of people were systematically executed based on their religious background (perhaps there might not be much difference in genetic race per se, but remember the killing in Kosova was according to religious groups, hence termed ethnic cleansing).
much of the IRA’s funding came for the US where shallow minded politicians liked the idea of a united Ireland, even though the majority in the North wanted to remain part of the union. That all stopped of course after 9-11 when terrorism became extremely unfashionable.
nevertheless, mucha man, despite my doubts, I do hope you turn out to be right, despite any floors in your logic.
That ‘who is a real Taiwanese’ stuff is sheer hypocrisy.
That former actress, Jiang Xia, who reportedly said overseas residents coming back to vote for Ma were not real Taiwanese, has a daughter who lives in the States and came back to vote.
So don’t believe the propaganda that only KMT supporters have green cards or US passports.
To me, anybody who has ROC nationality is a Taiwanese and has the right to vote. No matter what they think about Taiwan, Taiwan independence, unification, etc.
It is true though that some who are born and raised in Taiwan , but of waishen stock dont consider themselves “TAiwanese” and thats wierd.
I say , everyone born on Taiwan. Or at least one parent is born on Taiwan or who have lived over ten years in TAiwan can and should be considered “Taiwanese” .
As a lot of people in those categories have some vested interest in Taiwan and its wellbeing.
That should be the pre-requisite…those that have a vested interest in the wellbeing of Taiwan, this rock that we call home.
I think the two quotes above are quite sensible answers. It is very unfortunate that many people in Taiwan have come to understand Taiwanese as being synonomous with speaking Hoklo and tracing ancestry in Taiwan back at least several generations. People from both sides of politics use it as a wedge. The DPP to to appeal to their voting base and the KMT to appeal to those who feel excluded by this definition.
Everyone who calls Taiwan their home is Taiwanese. What language you speak, where your parents were born or what “ethnic group” you belong to has nothing to do with it.
Hsieh said this very clearly in his speech on the eve of the election. Hoklo, Hakka, aborigines, “waishengren”, foreign brides are all Taiwanese.
[quote]Yeah but then Hsieh panders to the Hoklo “authentic Taiwanese” implying people with green cards and dual citizens aren’t Taiwanese.
I mean yeah people are stupid. But not that stupid.[/quote]
It takes one to know one.
I get a kick out out the American’s call to change their Constitution so Arnie,
Governor of Hollywood, can be President of THE WORLD.
Ma was born on Hong Kong which means he’s not Taiwanese nor “Chinese”.
As I’ve said before (under whatever guise ) my understanding of Taiwan
came from a friends grandfather; " I don’t like the DPP but I still hate the KMT!"
Taiwan like the Balkans historically was at an intersection off world powers’ power games. These powers colonized or brought these places under their sphere of influence for their own purposes and benefits (In the case of the Balkans it was Turkey, Russia and Austria-Hungary). The best way to have influence in a place is to turn the natives against each other, or change the demographics of a place through immigration, emigration, ethnic cleansing etc.
I wonder if the geography of the island of Taiwan (which today has been overcome by tunnels and mountain roads) ensured the different peoples were kept so far apart, that over time their differences never needed to be resolved. Martial law further ensured this. As soon as democracy came the dog was off the leash
Taiwanese (the hardcore greenies) seem do define themselves on the fact Taiwaneseness can only be transmitted through blood (like their Chinese “cousins”), which manifests itself in speaking Taiwanese, “loving” Taiwan, suspicion of foreigner colonialists (like me). But beyond that the cannot define exactly who they are.
They have little history and sense of their own unique culture to fall back on. Their culture is an “import” from China. They have been brainwashed to look down on the Aboringines, and thought to respect their benevolent Chinese masters (KMT brainwashing in education).
They say I am a foreigner. But what am I foreign of? Taiwan, but then that makes all the mainlanders foreigners too. The ROC? But isn’t Taiwan not the ROC? Taiwan is Taiwan right?
So I would say they are confused. And this provides the perfect opportunity for exploitation by China, the KMT and DPP who play on people’s hopes and fears
I think the two quotes above are quite sensible answers. It is very unfortunate that many people in Taiwan have come to understand Taiwanese as being synonomous with speaking Hoklo and tracing ancestry in Taiwan back at least several generations. People from both sides of politics use it as a wedge. The DPP to to appeal to their voting base and the KMT to appeal to those who feel excluded by this definition.
Everyone who calls Taiwan their home is Taiwanese. What language you speak, where your parents were born or what “ethnic group” you belong to has nothing to do with it.
Hsieh said this very clearly in his speech on the eve of the election. Hoklo, Hakka, aborigines, “waishengren”, [color=red]
foreign brides are all Taiwanese.
[/color][/quote]
Errrr…So foreign bridegrooms are what… chopped liver?
[quote=“TNT”]Taiwanese (the hardcore greenies) seem do [color=red]
define themselves on the fact Taiwaneseness can only be transmitted through blood
[/color] (like their Chinese “cousins”), which manifests itself in speaking Taiwanese, “loving” Taiwan, suspicion of foreigner colonialists (like me). But beyond that the cannot define exactly who they are.
[/quote]
Don’t know 'bout you guys, but that sounds suspiciously like an STD to me…
They’re called Ah-ma kids. Because the grandmother raised them in Taiwanese, due to the fact the parents are usually too busy working to take care of the kids.
They are like in a time machine actually. While the rest of Taiwan and USA was evolving with more and more Mandarin users, they’re stuck with a Chinese provincial identity. Even old time Cantonese speaking immigrants children are being sent to mandarin Chinese school now and learn simplified Chinese.
