I support any party that offers both peace and stability for Taiwan. Of the 2 parties who could form a government I think the KMT offers the best hope for this. The DPP wants to push Taiwanese Idenpendance and this only serves to inflame China. Sorry guys, but an independant Taiwan would cause a Chinese attack, CSB is rattling the tiger’s cage. Sometimes the tiger will sleep and sometimes it’ll bite you on your ass.
But I encourage my Taiwanese friends, who are apathetic about politics, to vote. I don’t care for who. Just vote.
Personally, I think all the mainland would have to do is:
[/quote]
Sadly, I think you are probably correct. I guess this means we’ll never even get to the point where the PRC relieves us of SF and LA and we then have an excuse for nuking all of urban China. Damn. Couldn’t the ROC hold out just long enough for us to crack the lids on our missile silos? Worthless bastards.
[quote=“Grasshopper”]
But I encourage my Taiwanese friends, who are apathetic about politics, to vote. I don’t care for who. Just vote.[/quote]
Why would you encourage uninformed, apathetic people to express their ignorance in the form of a vote? I just don’t understand this way of thinking. If citizens can’t be bothered to keep up with politics, then why should they be encouraged to vote? Rather than encouraging them to vote, why don’t you encourage them to at least read the papers so that they could make a more informed decision?
Heck yes. Who did we support in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s? In the 2000 election US policy was anti-DPP – Soong got plenty of play in the press, and the WashPost published an article saying Soong was a democratic reformer (they published my cry of protest at that farce. I also wrote a couple of blistering private emails to both the reporter and his boss). During the 2000 election the AIT rep went around making scare speeches about China, a move that favors the “security” party, the KMT (so delightful to watch Lien pull the rug out from under his party’s position with that asinine 3 months military service proposal). While individual lawmakers have been supportive – Solarz, Leach, Pell – the State Department is avowedly pro-China, and so is the academic foreign policy establishment.
So yes, the US was anti-DPP, and remains so. It has strong historical ties to the KMT.
So yes, the US was anti-DPP, and remains so. It has strong historical ties to the KMT.
Vorkosigan[/quote]
Maybe you should have read your post a little more carefully. Are you saying that if someone is anti-DPP (and your argument that the US is anti-DPP is pretty weak), then that makes them anti-democracy?
So yes, the US was anti-DPP, and remains so. It has strong historical ties to the KMT.
Vorkosigan[/quote]
Maybe you should have read your post a little more carefully. Are you saying that if someone is anti-DPP (and your argument that the US is anti-DPP is pretty weak), then that makes them anti-democracy?[/quote]
maybe you should word your criticism more accurately. Sure, it doesn’t make the US anti-democracy in general. but maybe vork meant it made them not supportive of DPP spearheaded-democracy in Taiwan, because the US threw in their lot with the KMT. and perhaps the US preferred the status quo of the KMT, because it meant relative stability with China, even at the cost of “taiwan democracy”. after all, did the US openly protest KMT’s martial law era (this i dunno).
I have spoken to many students and others – most young people – and they all say they like President Chen. However, and the disturbing thing is that none of them say they will vote. “Too lazy,” “Don’t care,” or, most often, “I don’t want to go home to vote,” meaning going back to the town that appears on your ID card as your official housing registration. Even going to Hsinchu is too far, it seems.
I read a report last week where an analyst commented that President Chen could lose the election on the strenghth of the apathy of the young voters.
I realize that democracy entails the freedom not to vote, but that seems an empty argument. This may well be the most important event, well, one of them, in the history of the island. I feel bad that so many don’t understand the role that they can play by participating in elections. Do they want to be like Hong Kongers and not have a say in the “election” of their leader?
I don’t know what alternate reality you’re living in, but in this one, the Bush Administration, and George W. Bush in specific, is the entity that stated that the U.S. would defend Taiwan. This happened pre-Sept 11th and was the source of much consternation among the chattering classes.
Prior to that, the Clinton administration had allowed the policy to lapse into deliberate ambiguity.
So to call Bush a “realpolitik whore” is a complete reversal of reality. To the contrary, Bush explicitly stated that Taiwan would be defended.
Whether he backs it up now, when the U.S. has more need of favors from China, is another question, but I would bet a lot more on Bush doing it than on a two-faced weasel like John Kerry doing more than huffing and puffing.
Um…I don’t think so…he was ‘a’ lawyer, but not Taiwan’s ‘most’ brilliant lawyer.
Omniloquacious, are you in favour of the DPP? or CSB himself? I would probably vote for DPP if CSB isn’t the one running… :s[/quote]
He was top of his class at NTU, and top of the country in the bar exams, which he took at a very young age. He had already established himself as Taiwan’s best shipping attorney when he started to become involved in politics, and was earning very high fees in that extremely lucrative area of law. He has the gift of the gab, and despite his faults, has all the qualities needed to excel as a courtroom lawyer.
I am not a big fan of A-bian. There are many people I would much rather see as the pan-green candidate in this election. Nor am I especially pro-DPP, and I am certainly not in favour of pushing the Taiwan independence envelope in present circumstances. But taken as a whole, what the DPP and its allies stand for is far closer to my hopes and ideals than what the pan-blues stand for – especially in such matters as protecting the environment, making Taiwan nuclear-free, fighting corruption and cronyism, reforming Taiwan’s political system, and generally making decisions for the public good rather than for the interests of a small ruling elite – and therefore I wish to see them remain in power.
If the KMT had reformed itself, got rid of its badly tarnished leaders, and put up more acceptable candidates for election, it would have been much harder to choose between the two sides. As it is, for all my reservations about Chen and my very poor opinion of his running mate, I absolutely cannot but hope and pray that a miracle will occur on March 20 and Chen be re-elected for a second term in office.
Back to the “poor performance” by DPP regarding the economy. Here is NASDAQ and TAIEX from mid. 1997. As we clearly can see, the TAIEX started to perform worse than NASDAQ already at the end of 1998 (KMT), with biggest difference in beginning of 2000 (KMT), and the gap shrinking from beginning of 2002 and stable up to date (DPP).
So, who is bullshitting about “stable economy”.
I hope enough people in Taiwan value freedom and democracy, and that they understand that if they don’t excersise their right to vote, this right might be taken away from them.
How can anyone, with open eyes, vote for a president and vice president who urge people not to vote (use their ballots) in a referendum? To choose not to vote is for me equivalent to say “no to democracy”, and therein we see the true colors of Lien and Soong - “we don’t really like democracy, but we play along so we can regain the power”.
Anyone who disagrees with the referendum should take their ballots, and leave it blank. At least then they are registered as votes, and they protect their democratic right to have other referendums in the future. But, those who don’t believe in democracy don’t care about details like that.
I don’t say that Chen & Lu is perfect, but Lien & Soong is much, much worse.
as for KMT, surely they’ve had a bloody history. But old Jiang’s son did a good job building TW’s economy infrastructure… if it weren’t for KMT at those times, TW wouldn’t be the planet’s center of semiconductor manufacturing as it is today. Look what CSB’s government has planned for the future ? in maybe 3, 5 10 years ? all I see from his campaine is using TW independece to get voters.
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Much of Taiwan’s infrastructure was in fact built by the Japanese. Taiwan’s economic miracle occured largely in spite of the KMT’s heavy-handed centralized economic planning rather than because of it as they would have you believe.
The growth of the semiconductor industry may be an exception, but most of that took place in the 1990s after the death of the younger Jiang.[/quote]
=), thanks for the rich comments ( I mean it ) and surely I will try to learn more as I spend more days on this lovely island.
Now as far as I know Jiang’s son promoted the so called “ShiDaJianShe”(10 big constructions) sorry, my translation is bad… basically that not only accelerated TW’s economy development, but also established a solid economical basis for later days. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Now, as for the semiconductor industry, I really don’t think it’s an exception… think of where all the technology comes from ? long before they have built the factories the TW government sent people to US to acquire knowledge and technology. Also they’ve built excellent environment in TW to attract these people back to work in TW… not to mention the government put big money to help to build the industry then privatise them.
Many Taiwanese I talk to seem to have this belief that no one… even the US would come to their aid if war broke out. I seriously don’t understand this one.
America sent their battleships to the strait over 1 blank missile fired in protest from the mainland and you think they wouldn’t come to Taiwan if it faced greater danger?
A majority Americans would rather fight for Taiwan than most Taiwanese. It’s almost sad. Why…
Why should America come to the aid of a country whose people aren’t even willing to fight for themselves?[/quote]
Well, personally I really don’t think US will do anything. For US there’s no clear benefit of fighting for TW apart from it’s semiconductor industry and perhaps it’s strategic location (military) in the pacific region. And on the other hand, China does not only possess a huge internal market for US exports; but also is a strong adversary who has nuclear weapons (especially not afraid of using them) and lots of people to spend. Let’s cut the crap of good and evil, this is the real world and every country act for its own interest.
The support in the American government for Taiwan is overwhelming… and has been stated many times over and shown in the continual sale of military equipement to Taiwan. You can argue America is just in it for the money, but the money they make off these sales could not compare to the damage it does to America’s relationship with China (and all the economical benifits it entails).
Good and evil aside, Taiwan is absolutely KEY for maintaining a stable Asian environment that keeps China in check. You can not undervalue the importance to the US of keeping Taiwan not only free and democratic, but out of China’s hands.
You’d have to be one ignorantly pessimistic person to doubt America’s commitment to defend Taiwan.
[quote=“Nikeh”][quote=“serafin”]
Taiwan is absolutely KEY for maintaining a stable Asian environment that keeps China in check. You can not undervalue the importance to the US of keeping Taiwan not only free and democratic, but out of China’s hands.
[/quote][/quote]
The corollary, which you allude to, is that if China gets its hands on Taiwan, then Asia will not have a stable environment. How does a separate Taiwan keep China in check (and from what).
Not sure I understand your reasoning or information.
Because if China takes Taiwan and the US does nothing, South Korea will become a Chinese client state (it’s already moving in that direction now). Japan will then be isolated and feel it can no longer depend on the US for its security. Japan will then re-arm destabilizing the entire region.
Funny thing. Went to a Chen rally a few days ago …and bought a little Abian noisemaker toy for NT$150 from the hawker circus that surrounds such rallies…and the cute little toy says “Made in CHINA” on the back.
