You can’t even criticize Islam with a moderate Muslim and have an intellectual conversation. They are worse than CCP officials when it comes to the 3 Ts.
If you think I’m wrong, go to a moderate Muslim mosque even not in a Muslim country and say something negative. I guarantee it’s not the same response in any other house of worship like a Buddhist temple, Jewish temple, Christian Church, etc. sure there are definitely crazies of those religions but the percentage of that population is much lower. Even a moderate Islamic country like Malaysia, it’s illegal to try to convert and spread religious materials that’s not promoting Islam. There are churches but they have to follow strict regulations.
I heard before from moderate muslims, when I told them to look at what happened inside of muslim countries, that Malaysia was a good example of a peaceful well balanced muslim country. Well, now imagine that tomorrow in Central Park, Kaohsiung the government calls people together to hit with bars two girls for kissing each other. Yes, that is a good example to what happens in a moderate muslim country. Or a Christian mayor going to jail for saying that the opposition is using the Koran for political purposes, etc… These are the moderates, the a bit more serious would jail you for kissing in public. When 10 out of 10 muslim countries act this way and after seeing how yes, they do not integrate in western societies, giving them excuses is like throwing rocks to your own roof.
I’m guessing he has no problem with those things. He has a western girlfriend, loves blues music and I doubt he has issues with gay people since we have mutual gay friends.
But keep on with the hating if it makes you happy…
I can see that you have no idea about what the religion of Islam is and either you are not telling the truth about your friend´s thoughts or he is not a true muslim as he would be living in sin if he would not have any problem against gay people. It is condemned in the Koran as an abomination.
Is not about hate, it is about the love I have for those who are really tolerant.
Anyways, please take a look at this video and then tell me that you are really happy to have a muslim population growing back at home: https://www.facebook.com/vox.alicante/videos/844614145744839/?hc_ref=ARSJqebkipZqBZf1ou-LbOeLVnojEM0f_Lf2cjkaumIVhPQZRml5c-QQBmThax4NKhs
What has Muslims shown us to not hate them? Even other Muslim countries don’t take Muslims from other countries, that should say it all. What have they shown me besides killing each other at their own mosques. What have they shown me besides killing Christians, Jews at their churches and temples and house of worship…houses of god. What have they shown me but flying planes into the towers in the name of Allah. What have they shown me but thrownhomosexual off buildings. What have they shown me but shoot at us, cut our heads off, run cars into us, plant explosives and set them off all over the world. Maybe it’s not all Muslims but it’s enough. You don’t know what hate is until you lived as a Christian being attacked in your house of worship in Egypt. You don’t know what hate is until you saw planes fly into the towers when you just came into work. You don’t know what hate is until you’re being stoned and thrown off building for whatever act they deem an abomination. You don’t know what hate is until you’re walking around and they drive cars into you, shoot at you screaming allah Akbar. Blowing up schools and hospitals. Enough is enough. Not all Muslims are like this, but enough of them is for any reasonable person to think there is a problem with Islam.
Muslim want to say the West is persecuting them? They need a reality check. We don’t hate them, they hate us.
Do they welcome us to their countries? Nope.
You think Taiwan has racist and discriminatory laws and views. Well come to even a moderate Muslim country like Malaysia. Tell me who is hateful then. We wouldn’t even be able to have to conversation here in public.
In Malaysia’s case I can kind of understand, in the sense that it’s only something like 65% Malay, and that the ethnic Chinese are so successful economically so they presumably feel threatened.
Is it normal for people to embrace the group that is slaughtering them?
A terrible Muslim? Oh no he’s much worse. He’s just a terrible person and mayor busy virtue signaling while his fellow londoners are getting killed in stabbings, raped and more. He is consistently making himself look like a fool, he actually looks like the bigger douche compared to trump which is impressive.
Islam conquered more territory during its height than the roman empire.
If you really want to play that game, they pale in comparison to the Brits, Mongols and Russians.
Did they? I barely noticed.
Maybe the reason why I barely noticed is because they didn’t penetrate the city walls (and possibly didn’t even try), unlike the Gauls (aka French pagans), the Visigoths (aka German pagans), the Vandals (aka more German pagans), the Ostrogoths (aka still more German pagans), the Normans (aka French Christians of Scandinavian ancestry), and the Holy Romans (aka various European Catholics and Protestants).
If we replace sack with sack or conquer, then we need to add the ancient Roman pagans themselves, French Catholics under Napoleon, Italian Catholics who took Rome from the Pope, and of course Americans who were also mostly Christian.
But yeah, we should totally fear Muslims because a bunch of North Africans stole some treasure from churches on the outskirts of Rome in 846. Absolutely terrifying!!!
There are things you can be ostracized or even arrested for saying in western countries, and whether or not the existing laws against blasphemy (yes in western countries), defamation and hate speech strike the right balance between freedom of speech and freedom from discrimination is always going to be in question. But where is the evidence that Muslims are afforded greater protection than any other group?
I did read your words. If you want to acknowledge that exceptions exist, don’t make unqualified absolute statements. “Muslims can’t integrate well” is an unqualified absolute statement. “Chinese can’t integrate well, Asians can’t integrate well, Catholics can’t set aside their loyalty to the Pope, white men can’t jump…”
A: Muslims can’t integrate well because they come from countries where apostasy is illegal.
Y: Lots of them come from countries where it’s not illegal. Do we need to make a list?
A: I’m only talking about countries with Islamic governments.
Y: Then you’re only talking about some Muslims, not all Muslims as a gigantic, homogeneous, swirling mass of terror, right?
I said mudslinging because, time and again, it turns into a petty contest of grievances, or as some would say, whataboutery. For one example, see the sack/conquest of Rome. Then there’s this:
Now where have I heard that phrase before?
You didn’t say extremely difficult. You said “legal and public backlash in their home country and community”. Public backlash for (perceived) betrayal of one’s community is not specific to Muslims. Legal backlash i.e. legal punishment for apostasy does exist in some Islamic countries, but not in the country with the largest Muslim population, nor in many other countries with majority or significant Muslim populations.
If you really care about freedom of religion, please get your facts straight.
I would say then why are you living in Malaysia? But…
It’s strange not to see a woman’s face in Malaysia (and many other countries). The degree of strangeness varies by region. The US has its Bible Belt, and Malaysia has its East Coast…
How long have you been there? Yes, they have “boot camps” that promise to beat the fairy out of your troubled teens, just like they do in the USA. The difference is that “sodomy” is still illegal in Malaysia (same as Singapore and, until a few days ago, India – oh and Texas and 12 other US states until 2003). Now show me the number of convictions in the last, say, twenty years. And ask around. “Where can I see a ladyboy cabaret show?” It won’t be out in the open like Thailand. It will be down some dingy back alley, but everyone knows it’s there, including the police.
Oh my. What has our Andrew been up to?
I honestly can’t relate and don’t even want to. You would need to spell it out – what exactly did you say? – and then let us try to find the cultural equivalents. But I would have zero interest in testing your theory.
Fwiw, I have had very civil discussions with Muslims at mosques in both Malaysia and Singapore (and would have in China when they invited me in and told me to ignore the “Muslims only” sign that was probably put up by the government, but I declined the invitation). I sensed that they hoped I would convert, but if anything they gave off less of a vibe of desperation than some of the Christians, Buddhists and Hindus I’ve met in churches and temples in various countries, and that’s not even much desperation to start with. No, I didn’t ask them what they thought of Aisha, or the Crusades, or the Inquisition, or anything like that. I visit other people’s places of worship mostly for the art and architecture, not to start arguments with strangers.
True. The “Allah” controversy always makes me chuckle.
They do.
They just don’t do it with an absolute oh you’re a Muslim sure no problem here’s your new passport attitude. That’s also true in the West. We could compare the number of Syrian refugees in Turkey (over 3.5 million registered) and Lebanon (over 1 million registered, probably over 2 million total) etc. with those in the West. They may receive worse treatment in Turkey and Lebanon, on average, but Turkey is just barely in the first world (or still an “emerging market” according to some), and Lebanon is a war-torn second world country.
Right now Bangladesh is tolerating an extremely large Rohingya refugee camp near the border with Myanmar. Why does it refuse to take them in permanently? You might as well ask why the US refuses to take in its fellow Christians from Latin America…
And in addition to the extreme poverty in Bangladesh (i.e. the government can barely take care of its own people), accepting the Rohingya refugees would would create a perception of legitimacy for the Burmese government’s position (which allegedly meets the legal definition of genocide) i.e. that they were Bangladeshi immigrants all along, not true Burmese, no matter how many centuries ago they arrived. Sound familiar, Europeans?
On a related note, going back to the apostasy/ostracism question, we could ask why the US asks Iraqis to risk their lives by working for the US military, offering to help them immigrate to the US in return, and then turns around and says your visas are no longer valid because you must be terrorists, but I think that discussion belongs in IP.
I haven’t lived those experiences (have you?), but I do know what hate is.
We’ve seen this before. Andrew wants to tell a very large percentage of Christians that they can’t possibly be Christians because they don’t agree with him about the nature of the Resurrection. Bojack (iirc) wants to tell Bush family supporters they can’t possibly be Republicans if they don’t support Trump. At least in both of those cases, the person making the accusation of blasphemy/apostasy is a member of the group.
Yet despite these complaints about how Muslims can’t be trusted because of Islamic theology, the moment a Muslim disagrees with those very same theological matters that get Andrew, Nacho et al. so worked up, they say you can’t possibly be a Muslim, or else you’re lying!
So much for freedom of religion.
Enjoy!
(Again, I do not actually recommend this, for reasons other than religion.)
Impossible! They’re lying! Or they’re not true Muslims, so they’re irrelevant to this discussion! Or they are Muslims, but they’re going to push each other off buildings! [end sarcasm]
Sorry, I’m drained after that monster post. Try again later.
I challenge the anti-Muslims among you to visit one of the local mosques (Taipei has two) and meet some of the friendly Muslims there. (BTW I detect little support among them for ISIS or any such group.) Or if that is too much trouble, the next time you take out your household garbage, say hello to the neighborhood Indonesian maids / caregivers. Your prejudices are unlikely to survive actual contact with the enemy.
About 250,000 of Indonesian are the largest group of foreigners in Taiwan, supporting basic parts of this country. Judging from the percentage of Muslims in Indonesia, I guess many of them are Muslims. They are not contributing to Taiwan? Or this is not a contribution to the world?
I think you take too much joy in finding the small insignificant exceptions and finding completely irrelevant past posts. If I say all the marbles in the jar are blue, you want to find that one off color teal one lol. Really? Comparing things like being jailed for threats of physical harm and such vs getting burned alive for criticizing Islam? Pathetic argument. How much time did you spend on argueing if the penetration of the walls counts as “sacked”
What are you evening arguing for besides such meaningless points and semantics?
They’re doing jobs that could be filled by others realistically. I think you’re reaching desperately now. Besides the oil kingdoms has the Islamic world really done much in terms of acknowledgement of human rights and dignity of life? Thrived in industry? Such large advances in science the rest of the world is following? Accumulating of wealth for everyone? Successful Democratization? Etc etc. I’m sure you can find some cases but it’s overwhelmingly no.
