Continue to be naive and ignore my questions. I’m surprised you’d be defending Islam, Islamic countries consistently rank at the bottom for the things you care about like human rights, workers rights, women’s rights, equality of races etc. I find it funny people that are usually for these issues tend to ignore them when it comes to Islam.
sorry, I may have missed your question. What is it?
this and whether all of muslims cannot integrate are different thing for me.
Some Muslims certainly can. But a large enough amount don’t want to, don’t try and even try to make you integrate with them. I gave very clear points on reasons why. Feel free to go back and read them such as they can’t legally change their faith without legal issues and many others.
But in the meantime, I’d like you to formulate an actual argument Nd stance.
Seriously, where is the Elon musk of Syria? Bill gates of Afghanistan? Terry gou of Iraq? Jack ma of Indonesia. Without cheating, can you name me one musical artist or band from Islamic countries? One writer? One painter? One businessman or women? One female politician? One actor? Now name me how many terrorists/terrorists groups and brutal dictators/religious leaders lol. If it’s easier to go down the list of Osama bin ladens than any of the things like musicians, things are not going well.
I didn’t think it was a question. I googled and found some Nobel Prize winners from Islamic societies. Are they small exceptions?
I had thought that you or @NachoPR’s claim is that all Muslims never contribute or integrate to the other world, so one exception were enough to argue it.
By the way, is it right that your answer to my question is Muslims in Taiwan from indonesia are just doing jobs that could be filled by others, so it is not counted as contrbution to Taiwan?
Sure, great argument…
List of nobel prizes :
I’ve cheched the winners of the islamic country with the highest number of prizes, it was Algeria with 2 prizes, then I checkedwho they were… the 2 winners are Albert Camus and Claude Cohen (who both were fully french are are “algerian” because they born there when it was a French colony 
There is a quote attributed to E.M. Forster that could perhaps help clarify why this seems to be a recurrent issue:
I can’t believe I am defending Islam or Iran as I hate them both but they are not as bad as you make them. Idk about the other countries so I’ll just name a few from Iran:
Asghar Farhadi, one of the most revered filmmakers alive.
Maryam mirzakhani, the first woman to win the fields medal (this year there was was an Iranian among the winners as well but I dont know his name).
Bijan paknezhad, perfume and clothing stuff?
Pierre omidyar, co-founder of ebay.
Ramin djawadi, composer. Game of thrones soundtrack among others.
Ceo of uber whatever his name.
I can assure you the list is much much longer.
Also have you ever visited Dubai or Doha? I am pretty sure many of your misconceptions will fade instantly if you do.
I work with a Moroccan guy who is a Muslim. Nice bloke.
I don’t like Islam.
Egypt is not an Islamic country?
back to this. If all of the gold card holders and people who got taiwanese citizenship by Distinguished Service to the R.O.C. would leave Taiwan today, there are not so much troubles in Taiwan, though if all of Indonesian would leave today, Taiwan will be in a huge panic.
Oh please, Andrew. Your sack of Rome argument was one of the weakest possible arguments you could make, so I deconstructed it without difficulty. That was fun, for a moment. But now you’re trying to resurrect it, and it’s tedious. [tedious resurrected response hidden]
Tell me how much you fear the French 
the Germans the Italians and Europeans in general and pagans and Christians in general . Then we can discuss the nuances of Roman walls, and I’ll tell you how much I fear North Africans and Muslims in general.
finding completely irrelevant past posts.
I don’t find those posts. I remember them, because I was part of those discussions.
I brought up the name change issue because I’ve told you before, the freedom to change your name is not always available, even in Taiwan, and even in the West. (This probably doesn’t occur to anglophones because in common law jurisdictions the right to choose your own name is taken for granted.)
I brought up the Vatican hotel telling you not to sleep with your girlfriend because I think it’s a reasonable comparison. Has that ever happened to you in Malaysia, or not?
What are you evening arguing for besides such meaningless points and semantics?
When I point out the flaws in your argument, it’s just “meaningless points and semantics”?
You aren’t arguing effectively. You have an opportunity here to improve your style, and I’m not even asking for money.
You speak a lot of half truths like Muslims can’t convert without legal consequences, and outright lies like Muslim countries don’t take Muslim refugees, Muslim countries don’t welcome non-Muslim visitors/immigrants – you’re living in a Muslim country right now, ffs!
Some of your words echo the kind of hate that has been uttered against other groups, including Asians, but you don’t seem interested. You also make dubious claims that seem copy-pasted, like You don’t know what hate is until you lived as a Christian being attacked in your house of worship in Egypt. I still don’t believe you came to your understanding of what hate is by being attacked in a church in Egypt, though I suppose I could be wrong.
I’d like to give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you actually care about human rights and want to make the world a better place, instead of just getting off by s***ting on people. If you do want to raise awareness of the problems of immigration and integration (and I don’t for a moment deny that problems exist), check your facts and use some tact. Hire a fact checker if you’re too busy.
You won’t make anything better in Beijing by giving the Chairman the finger, even if it makes you personally feel good and scores you points (“virtue signaling”) with people who think the same way. You won’t make immigrants any more eager or willing to integrate by giving them the finger either.
I’ll take a guess and say Abbas was also a Muslim, though his Wiki bio doesn’t mention his religion.
sorry, I read the list too fast and skipped it
Checking the contribution of the biggest islamic contributor by far, 4 Nobels prizes (3 polititicals , and only 1 from science, which was from an egyptian studying and working in the USA).
Anyway, I just think your argument about the contribution of islamic societies to the world culture is quite amusing.
They may be people who don’t integrate and contribute to US.
And UK
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The point is that, if you can make a list of notable Muslims, is because there is so few, out of 1.8 billion follower!
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As far as taking horses to rivers goes, you gotta admit this particular one might not be inclined towards drinking.
A discussion about Muslims surely needs a thread of its own. This thread is about Islam. I detest the Catholic Church, but it would be ludicrous to equate that with detesting 1.2 billion Catholics.
Muslims do not integrate in the best cases
So, they are people why do not integrate.
How is it weak, the point that the Islamic empire was taking territory into Europe going through spain and south of Italy all the way to getting Rome. You can argue how much penetration of the walls is required to call it as asking all you want, the fact that they got so far as that and it took a long time before the first crusades were even called which by any means is a natural reaction. I didn’t say the crusades were good, just that it was what any other group of people losing huge chunks of territory would do. And the second point is Islam is an empire and was conquering very successfully.
You’re one to talk about weak arguements trying to place saying things like words of threat can land you in jail is somehow anyway equal to the same treatment of critical of Islam.
We are not local so local Islamic laws don’t get applied but there are hotels that do not permit it in certain places. But yes, locals need a marriage license to sleep in the same room in many hotel.
It’s pretty hard to move here, I’m still waiting for the visa to be approved. Some banks don’t take me because I’m not local and won’t open an account on visa. And they make you pay a tourism tax if you’re not local. The list goes on and on. And this is just a “moderate” Muslim country.
The fact you had to google out of 1.8 billion people should say enough. And I gave you a leeway of 2 centuries.
And I had tad bit higher expectations of contribute like going to space, develop vaccines.
I’m not sure what you are claiming, but is it that Muslims make less contributions to the world than non Muslims, and they don’t integrate to other societies, so they should go out from other societies, or they should be segregated, or they should convert to other religions, or they should not exist?
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