Peyote, they got that too, right?
HG
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]G.B.H. -
Thanks for your post.
That boy is as full of wind as a corn eatin’ horse.[/quote]
Whatever. You still haven’t told me why you were mocking my comment that high rates of poverty, welfare, illiteracy, teenage pregnancy, crime, gun ownership, and capital punishment tend to coincide in the same geographic regions, in the US, namely the South and central portion of the country, and that conservativism, strong religious faith and the Republican party also tend to be more concentrated in those same regions. Do you deny any of that? Which part?
As I said repeatedly, I don’t know whether any particular parts of that convergence of issues are cause or effect or mere coincidence, but it seems that there’s a logical connection between at least some of those characteristics. Do you deny that? No connection between poverty and teen pregnancy? No connection between illiteracy and crime?
As for you, gao_bo_han, I know, I know, “Don’t Mess With Texas!” And I agree, maybe you’re right that it’s not enough to be statistically significant, but I’m hardly the first to note that there have been a disturbing number of Texas mommies killing their babies in recent years.
nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-C … illed.html
dallasnews.com/sharedcontent … 75300.html
chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/ … 45981.html
forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/05/ … 66754.html
guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/s … 30,00.html
I was just commenting on this terrible case that just happened and asking why, in the words of major newspapers in Dallas, Houston, New York and elsewhere, “Texas has seen a disturbing number of child killings by mothers in recent years.” Apparently you feel it’s pure random chance. Fine, you’re entitled to your opinion. But there’s nothing wrong with asking if maybe some other factors may have contributed to these repeated acts of mass infanticide in Texas. No offense to the Great State of Texas. Just curious.
Oh, and gao_bo_han, thanks for posting those pics of Texas’ different ecosystems. That was interesting. Seriously. And I’ve been to Texas and enjoyed it very much – particularly Austin. But I still believe it’s a hot, dry state, and your photos haven’t convinced me otherwise.
I think there’s not enough information to draw any sound conclusions. I agree with redandy that there is very little correlation to the facts you’ve posted and the strange murders, much less casual relations.
Hey, as I said, Texas has a lot of problems compared to other states and its annoying how so many Texans refuse to acknowledge that. I was lamenting that politicians have to parrot the “Great State of Texas” line while Texas consistently does poorly on all quantifiable measures of state performance. However, the exact same conditions exist in other states that rank as poorly as Texas, and yet they don’t seem to be suffering from these post-partum murders. My point is that while yes, Texas has problems, your overblown characterization is inaccurate.
Oh it’s hot alright, but humidity and precipitation vary widely depending on what part of the state we’re discussing. The two extremes are obviously the wet, coastal areas in the east and the desert lands and arid mountains in the west. But there are lots of places with moderate climates, such as the Texas Hill Country, in which Austin is seated. My point was that Texas is not a sweltering, uniform dustbowl where the heat never recedes and people are going insane like some old terrible spaghetti western. It is a diverse place and if anything, the beautiful Texas landscapes and sunshine help keep people happy and sane.
I have no idea why Texas has seen so many post-partum slayings. I just think most of your guesses are way off base.
This is yet another nasty problem exposed from the gentle rubbing of reality against the thin veneer of red-state hypocrisy. A hardcore pro-life state where they hate abortion … so long as it doesn’t happen up until the kids are toddlers suitable for hanging or drowning or until they’re 14 or otherwise old enough for electrocution. A state full of people with Mexican heritage that hates Mexicans, Texans love to pretend that they “love America” more than anybody else while maintaining all sorts of lore about their own “Republic” and how all normal rules don’t apply to them.
I don’t buy into the peculiar brand of cultural relativism being urged upon us by the Texas faction of the red-state brigade. If bringing back the bullfighting rings would satisfy their bloodlust, I’d be up for that. At least the bulls have a fighting chance.
If I was American, I’d come from Texas.
Sorry mfgr, I’m just not buying that a particular political persuasion somehow leads to infanticide. Got any evidence?
The day-to-day stress of living with lies, double-standards and hypocrisy blown out to Texas-sized portions is what’s done it. As to hard evidence, that only shows who done went and killed their kids. The moms that lived have been found to be nuts, so we have to go back a step and wonder what it is that makes the moms nuts. I think it’s the big ol’ Texas-sized cowpies that these poor people have to eat every day of their existence while they struggle with being Texan. They’re strong Christians, but the 6th Commandment is flouted more there than in any other state – how does one reconcile being a “pro-lifer” and yet surrounding themselves with death (fastest electric chair in the country!) and the capability to take life (they love them guns)?
I was wondering when you were going to play the race card.[/quote]
I believe MT’s statement was supposed to be sarcastic (as in parodying those who oppose immigration - typically conservatives).
???
I can not find any solid stats for baby murders by parents. The closest I could come is Center for Disease Control homicide stats. Let us assume that most kids under four years of age when they are murdered are killed by one of their parents (nationwide stats support this idea).
Okay then the CDC stats, and I will use 2004 as the year to talk about and this is homicides where the victim is ages 0-4 years old at time of death (I will just chose some states at random):
Texas 32 homicides
California 33 homicides
New York 14 homicides
Alaska 3 homicides
Florida 17
United States as a whole 377 homicides
Oh, oh, looks like my beloved home state, laid back and liberal (not!) Cali-forn-aa is the baby murder capital of America.
The best portal for this research is:
webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html
take care,
Brian
I was wondering when you were going to play the race card.[/quote]I believe MT’s statement was supposed to be sarcastic (as in parodying those who oppose immigration - typically conservatives).
???[/quote]Chris -
Can you cite some back-up for your claim…or does it just feel good to say things like that?
To help you, because thats what ‘conservatives’ do - we try to actually help people rather than just bemoaning their predicament with sensitivity, I will say that ‘conservatives’ are opposed to illegal “immigration.”
I have heard no complaints from ‘conservatives’ regarding legal immigrants. Many of the staunchest conservatives are themselves legal immigrants or the sons and/or daughters of legal immigrants. Myself included.
Welcome to the USA…just sign the book and obey the laws when you enter.
Glad to be of help…
[quote=“brianlkennedy”]I can not find any solid stats for baby murders by parents. The closest I could come is Center for Disease Control homicide stats. Let us assume that most kids under four years of age when they are murdered are killed by one of their parents (nationwide stats support this idea).
Okay then the CDC stats, and I will use 2004 as the year to talk about and this is homicides where the victim is ages 0-4 years old at time of death (I will just chose some states at random):
Texas 32 homicides
California 33 homicides
New York 14 homicides
Alaska 3 homicides
Florida 17
United States as a whole 377 homicides
Oh, oh, looks like my beloved home state, laid back and liberal (not!) Cali-forn-aa is the baby murder capital of America.
The best portal for this research is:
webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html
take care,
Brian[/quote]
Thank you very much sir.
OK now MT and MFGR, it’s time you apply your half-baked pop psychology theories to why California is the baby murder capital of America.
Come on now, we’re waiting. 
[quote=“mofangongren”]This is yet another nasty problem exposed from the gentle rubbing of reality against the thin veneer of red-state hypocrisy. A hardcore pro-life state where they hate abortion … so long as it doesn’t happen up until the kids are toddlers suitable for hanging or drowning or until they’re 14 or otherwise old enough for electrocution. A state full of people with Mexican heritage that hates Mexicans, Texans love to pretend that they “love America” more than anybody else while maintaining all sorts of lore about their own “Republic” and how all normal rules don’t apply to them.
I don’t buy into the peculiar brand of cultural relativism being urged upon us by the Texas faction of the red-state brigade. If bringing back the bullfighting rings would satisfy their bloodlust, I’d be up for that. At least the bulls have a fighting chance.[/quote]
Got any proof to back up this claim?
I was wondering when you were going to play the race card.[/quote]
I believe MT’s statement was supposed to be sarcastic (as in parodying those who oppose immigration - typically conservatives).[/quote]
MT was implying that Texans blame their problems on illegal immigration, which they do not. It’s true that most Texans are opposed to illegal immigration, but that doesn’t make them racists. And Texas businessmen love the cheap labor, Texas politicians cannot possibly win votes without pandering to the Hispanic voting bloc (except in isolated districts without large Hispanic populations), and for the most part Mexicans are well-integrated into Texas life.
[quote=“gao_bo_han”][quote=“brianlkennedy”]I can not find any solid stats for baby murders by parents. The closest I could come is Center for Disease Control homicide stats. Let us assume that most kids under four years of age when they are murdered are killed by one of their parents (nationwide stats support this idea).
Okay then the CDC stats, and I will use 2004 as the year to talk about and this is homicides where the victim is ages 0-4 years old at time of death (I will just chose some states at random):
Texas 32 homicides
California 33 homicides
New York 14 homicides
Alaska 3 homicides
Florida 17
United States as a whole 377 homicides
Oh, oh, looks like my beloved home state, laid back and liberal (not!) Cali-forn-aa is the baby murder capital of America.
The best portal for this research is:
webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html
take care,
Brian[/quote]
Thank you very much sir.
OK now MT and MFGR, it’s time you apply your half-baked pop psychology theories to why California is the baby murder capital of America.
Come on now, we’re waiting. [/quote]
Are you sure Brian was really trying to help you out, gao_bo_han? 
Another way to ask the same question: Are you certain that those numbers he provided are per capita figures?
If they are not (and they certainly don’t look like they are), then MT and MFGR will hardly need to resort to “half-baked pop psychology theories” to explain the data. The answer will be simple: California has the highest number because it is by far the most populous state. New York and Florida each have around half California’s number of child murders because they each have around half California’s population.
The real outlier in Brian’s data in that case is Texas, which his numbers would indicate has something like twice as many child murders per capita as New York, Florida, or California. Not a particularly robust defense of The Fair Republic there…
It’s one of the tougher cities in the U.S, and all of the massive suburban areas that would normally dilute the crime figures don’t in this case because they are in Maryland and Virginia. A better comparison would be individual cities, like Baltimore, Philly, Chicago, etc.
As for the Texas mommie problem, I’m seeing a lot of alleged characteristics of Texas, but I’m not seeing that much correlation, much less actual causation. Why not just blame it on the fact that Texas has more Armadillos than any other state…[/quote]
Well, thanks. That makes perfect sense now. Basically, DC is a lopsided “state.”
[quote=“gao_bo_han”][quote=“mofangongren”]This is yet another nasty problem exposed from the gentle rubbing of reality against the thin veneer of red-state hypocrisy. A hardcore pro-life state where they hate abortion … so long as it doesn’t happen up until the kids are toddlers suitable for hanging or drowning or until they’re 14 or otherwise old enough for electrocution. A state full of people with Mexican heritage that hates Mexicans, Texans love to pretend that they “love America” more than anybody else while maintaining all sorts of lore about their own “Republic” and how all normal rules don’t apply to them.
I don’t buy into the peculiar brand of cultural relativism being urged upon us by the Texas faction of the red-state brigade. If bringing back the bullfighting rings would satisfy their bloodlust, I’d be up for that. At least the bulls have a fighting chance.[/quote]
Got any proof to back up this claim?[/quote]
As to the general notion of Texans who don’t like Mexicans, how about the rabid cheering at the 2006 gubernatorial inauguration event sponsored by the GOP when Ted Nugent let loose with his tirades against the latinos? As to the notion of long-settled Mexican-Americans who don’t like Mexicans, it’s a phenomenon that I agree is strange – you might have to ask them why but it may tie in with the same anti-immigrant notions that have motivated English settlers to object to the arrival of German immigrants, the English and Germans to object to the Irish, the English, Germans and Irish to object to the Italians … and so on and so on.
As to the rest of the observations about the contradictions of Texan life, do you have any disagreement?
The number of murders is very small in both cases though. Besides, MT’s argument is still weak. Can we say there’s half as many baby murders per capita in California because all of those conditions MT listed are only err, half-way present? Do you really buy into his argument?
Let’s see.
It’s true that 14 is the minimum age for execution in Texas, but the bolded part of your statement is insane. Texans do not consider children acceptable for hanging or drowning, and I’m sure you know that. When it happens, it’s murder, and the offenders are tried. That so many of them are convincing conservative, skeptical Texas juries they were insane (by the toughest insanity test in any jurisdiction I might add), further proves the point their behavior is far from normal.
Your assertion is about as grounded in fact as the “Chinese people eat their babies” thread which was temped and then deleted.
And before you go off on some “Texans are executing children” schtick, consider if 14 year olds are really “children”. 14 is plenty old enough to know it’s wrong to commit murder.
I simply disagree that most Texans hate Mexicans. Do you consider opposition to illegal immigration as racist hatred? I ask because that is often how the debate is framed by those who support completely open borders.
If your only evidence that Texans “hate Mexicans” is because Ted Nugent got cheered on at some political rally, I’d say you’re standing on pretty weak ground. I agree it doesn’t look good, but their cheers don’t correspond with my experiences being raised in Texas. When I was in school the Mexican kids always mixed freely with the whites. Nearly everyone studies Spanish in school, Cinco de Mayo is celebrated in grade schools across the state with dances and feasts, a lot of schools have bilingual education now, etc. Whites and Mexicans dating is considered normal and interracial couples are commonplace. I realize my evidence is ancedotal, but I have lived in several cities in Texas, and rarely seen any racism.
Any Hispanic Texans on here wish to comment?
Not sure what you’re trying to say here.
Your comparison is invalid. Settlers of one race objecting to settlers of a different race could still be motivated by racism. In the case of Texas, there is significant opposition to illegal immigration from a large minority of Hispanic Texans, particularly established families. That proves opposition to illegal immigration is NOT necessarily motivated by racism. And the same situation exists for MT’s beloved California. I recall an anti-illegal immigrant bill several years ago received support from 40% of the Hispanic population.
As a Mexican-American who has traveled a wee bit in Texas, I agree – I have not seen any such prejudice. Just one person’s observation. Haven’t lived there though, so this is of limited relevance.
If my Mexican father were living there, I’m pretty sure he would be voting for the anti-illegal immigration bill. He’s pretty much the law and order type, immigrated to the US legally, and fully expects his compatriots to abide by the same obligation. I’ve heard him make statements to this effect. Again, just one person’s report here.