Why doesnt China simply adopt the R.O.C. sytem of government

Politics Taiwan Politics
1

Since China is so adamant about TAiwan not abandoning the R.O.C. name and national flag and is so keen on reunification. Why doesnt China simply adopt the government and flag of the R.O.C. As its no longer a “communist” country really. Its a capitalist country now.

If China adopted the government and flag of the R.O.C. It would then be harder for TAiwan to NOT reunify wouldnt it?

China spent decades in a competition with the R.O.C. all around the world to be the “real China” and to shut down the KMT run R.O.C. And it wouldnt allow the R.O.C flag to fly anywhere and even to the point of not allowing its planes to be at the same airports as those of the hated KMT run “China Airlines” The “two Chinas” went after worldwide recognition as the REAL CHINA. And finally China won that game, won the right to represent CHINA in the eyes of the world. And the KMT run R.O.C. became a bit of a joke when still declaring itself as the real government of China (which it was at one time but obviously no longer was running the show over there). Finally the R.O.C. government conceded that it no longer has a plan to 'RE take " the mainland and gave up that idea. LEe teng hui was instrumental in that change of taiwans policy.

And now irony of ironies , the CCP is now the staunchest supporter of the KMT. And is a staunch supporter of the R.O.C. flag as well. And irony of ironies, if "China Airlines " changed its name to something without the name of “china” on it, they will probably be banned from cross strait charter flights as well as flights to HONGKONG.

It really IS ironic in my opinon how things have turned out? China spent soo much effort and time to isolate the R.O.C and to win the right to represent China in the eyes of the world. Adn now when Taiwan has been defeated in its quest to “retake the mainland” and in fact wants to divorce itself from China, its forced to make friends with the KMT and to demand that Taiwan not separate from China and not change its flag or name.

2

China really should support Taiwanese independence, because then there will be only one China, no more of this “free China” or “democratic China” business, just one communist China.

3

While it’s at it, China should adopt the legendary decorum of the Taiwan legislature too. :stuck_out_tongue:

4

HAHAhA so funny !! and can you imagine if American members of the house and congress had to battle it out on the floor like taiwanese lawmakers do??? :slight_smile::slight_smile:

5

sdaf

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HAHAhA so funny !! and can you imagine if American members of the house and congress had to battle it out on the floor like Taiwanese lawmakers do??? :slight_smile::)[/quote]

They did. They pulled guns on each other too. American democracy at 10, 20, even 50 years old, was pretty crazy stuff… just like Taiwan’s democracy at 10 and 20 years old. Too many people miss that key issue.

7

And the gap between the government and opposition benches in the House of Commons is two sword-lengths. No accident there.

8

The new modern China is all about Nationalism and Face.

Adopting an ROC style system, makes them lose it.

It doesn’t matter if people die, face and image is more important to the CCP.

9

[quote=“ShrimpCrackers”]The new modern China is all about Nationalism and Face.

Adopting an ROC style system, makes them lose it.

It doesn’t matter if people die, face and image is more important to the CCP.[/quote]

but wouldnt it be the perfect political weapon tho? Imagine China adopting the R.O.C system (with its own people in power of course) and using the R.O.C flag, how can the R.O.C. in taiwan then say that they are “different”. it is unorthodox for sure, but??

Seems the CCP and the KMT have been enemies for so long they have become the “devil you know” entity to each other and preferable to the devil you DONT know.

If China had been smart, it shouldve allowed the R.O.C to have its position in the world, continuing to define itself as the other or real china. And its citizens passports usable around the world. But by its policy of constriction, it has made the people of Taiwan rebel and form its own identity, no longer wishing to be called Chinese or “from China” .

Singaporeans are mostly of chinese origin and they certainly dont address themselves as “chinese”. Americans are stillll for the most part (this could change in future) anglo saxons from the UK originally , but they certainly dont call themselves english or scots or what? they are American.

Taiwan has a right to call itself TAIWAN and its people a right to call themselves TAIWANESE.

p.s. the “two sword length” separation and the drawn guns noted :slight_smile: (getting mental picture on that)

p.p.s. YES i agree that the populace of Taiwan were NEVER too keen on “re-taking china” and always privately scoffed and laughed at this idea. But i think some were happy to think of the 2 million soldiers from China “going back” tho??

10

Follow by the mass exodus of everyone that is not 100% Hoklo…

11

Follow by the mass exodus of everyone that is not 100% Hoklo…[/quote]
More fantasy?
What happens when a Blue Taiwanese businessman gets sick in China? Runs back to Taiwan first thing.

I doubt many Taiwanese are willing to enter China as it is for a really long extended stay.

Besides the cultural differences, I can’t get used to the fact that many of my Chinese friends that are in China live in apartments where sharing the toilet down the hall is customary.

12

Can you give any example of where the Chinese Communist Party has supported the use or display of the ROC flag? And I don’t mean in the 1940s.

13

Follow by the mass exodus of everyone that is not 100% Hoklo…[/quote]
More fantasy?
What happens when a Blue Taiwanese businessman gets sick in China? Runs back to Taiwan first thing.

I doubt many Taiwanese are willing to enter China as it is for a really long extended stay.

Besides the cultural differences, I can’t get used to the fact that many of my Chinese friends that are in China live in apartments where sharing the toilet down the hall is customary.[/quote]
Of course you are the perfect archetype of the average Taiwanese… :laughing:

I really don’t see how bashing PRC at every opportunity helps the average Taiwanese in Taiwan any bit. Many Taiwanese companies derive their income from their businesses in the PRC, which in turn pays for Taiwanese salaries in Taiwan. If that source of income were to be cut off due to the unwise decision of a few in Taiwan, how would that income be replaced? Where would the extra income needed to pay for foreign English teachers in Taiwan come from? I’ll hazard to guess that Taipei being full of Taxi drivers is not a self-sustaining economic model.

Of course contemplating the Strait Issue from this angle requires that an individual actually have some responsibilities in Taiwan. Some ne’er do well, I’ve have the privilege of meeting, sometimes don’t understand the realities their parents had to deal with.

If you only had some facts to back up your claims perhaps your argument would be more compelling.

Because the point of this thread has nothing to do with helping out the average person in ROC or PRC. It is more about your one-man-war with bashing the PRC. Since even you don’t want to live under ROC government on a long term basis.

14

Beijing is a staunch supporter of “China”, not necessarily the Republic of China. The same ROC government that implemented 228 in Taiwan carried out the same atrocities times 100 in mainland China. But that said, many Chinese I know have informally kicked around the idea of renaming PRC as the ROC, and re-adopting the ROC flag. It’s at least a possibility for the new China.

Anyone else note the statistics given in the Taipei Times article yesterday? 15 years ago, something like 15% of Taiwanese believed ethnic tensions were a problem. Today, 55%+ of Taiwanese believe that it’s a problem. I guess some people believe that’s a move in the right direction, but I certainly don’t. It might be easier for mainland/Taiwan to bury the hatchet and start with a new national structure.

15

[quote=“cctang”]Beijing is a staunch supporter of “China”, not necessarily the Republic of China. The same ROC government that implemented 228 in Taiwan carried out the same atrocities times 100 in mainland China. But that said, many Chinese I know have informally kicked around the idea of renaming PRC as the ROC, and re-adopting the ROC flag. It’s at least a possibility for the new China.

Anyone else note the statistics given in the Taipei Times article yesterday? 15 years ago, something like 15% of Taiwanese believed ethnic tensions were a problem. Today, 55%+ of Taiwanese believe that it’s a problem. I guess some people believe that’s a move in the right direction, but I certainly don’t. It might be easier for mainland/Taiwan to bury the hatchet and start with a new national structure.[/quote]

yes that was what I was talking about. The leaders and government of the present CCP adopting the ROC system of government as its own. With China’s own people (not people sent over from taiwan). And adopting the ROC flag.

Taiwanese government officials could represent taiwan province then. And TAiwanese could then run for the original version of the house of representatives (i forgot under what name it was known) that the ROC kept going till most of them died here on taiwan.
Where the government body was elected from all provinces of China.

Taiwan couldnt separate if the ROC system and FLAG was the system of ALL CHINA could it?

16

Can you give any example of where the Chinese Communist Party has supported the use or display of the ROC flag? And I don’t mean in the 1940s.[/quote]

the CCP has never supported the KMT or the flag of the ROC until recent times. They tacitly , if not overtly support the KMT and support the ROC flag by virtue of not allowing tAiwan to change that very flag or to change the name of the ROC.

17

Can you give any example of where the Chinese Communist Party has supported the use or display of the ROC flag? And I don’t mean in the 1940s.[/quote]

the CCP has never supported the KMT or the flag of the ROC until recent times. They tacitly , if not overtly support the KMT and support the ROC flag by virtue of not allowing tAiwan to change that very flag or to change the name of the ROC.[/quote]
It is really Taiwan that is leading the PRC…how could we have missed that till now… :laughing:

18

Can you give any example of where the Chinese Communist Party has supported the use or display of the ROC flag? And I don’t mean in the 1940s.[/quote]

the CCP has never supported the KMT or the flag of the ROC until recent times. They tacitly , if not overtly support the KMT and support the ROC flag by virtue of not allowing tAiwan to change that very flag or to change the name of the ROC.[/quote]
It is really Taiwan that is leading the PRC…how could we have missed that till now… :laughing:[/quote]

TAiwan and China has existed separately till recent years when China opened up to Taiwanese tourists and investment. Taiwan has not “led” China. Taiwanese investment and know how of late though has spearheaded if you will, the current massive economic growth of China.

What has happened now is that the people of Taiwan are finally fed up with being “the other China”, “free China” and what have you. The CCP took over the mainland from the KMT (the Founding Party of Democracy in China). Well Actually more like the CCP was communist while the KMT was LENINIST , in that it was really Socialist. They were probably more similar in reality then different back in those days. Just that Mao ran the CCP and Chiang ran the KMT.

The KMT lost the war for China and had to make a very hasty retreat, taking almost all of Chinas gold and its finest treasures along the way. Some say “looting” China. Others say “keeping the gold from the bandits of the CCP”.

The KMT set up shop in Taiwan (much to the chagrin of the people who were already on Taiwan) and ruled autocratically and even brutally (ie 228). Finally Chiang Ching Kwo saw the light and opened up Taiwan on the road to a multi party state (ie democracy, or in Taiwans case perhaps better known as democrazy).

TAiwans populace used to be pretty proud to be Chinese as well as Taiwanese more specifically. There were always the camp that never forgave the KMT for the 228 incident. But a great many did believe in China and believe in the REPUBLIC OF CHINA. But through all the ensuing years when China has made the R.O.C. passport virtually useless and stymied nationalism (of being Chinese) iN Taiwans populace. Finally people on /Taiwan began to say “ENOUGH IS ENOUGH” " we DONT WANT TO BE CHINESE, OR TO GO BACK TO CHINA, WE DONT WANT CHINA OR ANY PART OF IT"

but IF and its really a history making gargantuan IF. China adopts the system and principles of the R.O.C and its flag. Then it will really be hard for Taiwan to split from China. It will really make Taiwan out to be nothing but a bandit country and a lier all these years, fighting for freedom of the people of China in the name of the R.O.C, and then to abandon the concepts of “free China” when China has adopted the R.O.C. sytem and constitution If Taiwan were to split then.

Not saying that the present leaders of the R.O.C. should RULE China. Just that China should rule itself under the concepts of government and constitution of the R.O.C. Taiwan couldnt very well deny China the use of R.O.C. constitution or flag could it?

Taiwans leaders could then be invited to run Taiwan , while also having a seat on the governing body of all China. There should be a governing body of China as prescribed by the R.O.C constitution , composed of elected officials from its very many provinces. Tibet invited to have a voice as well. Mongolia perhaps? HOng Kong having an elevated status befitting its long tenure as a virtual city-state. Perhaps then there could be a GREATER CHINA CONFEDERATION.??

The people of Taiwan and the people of China clearly are not at war with each other. Its their respective governments that cant get their **** together.

19

I disagree. If you ask people of Taiwan if they consider themselves Huaren, I would think most people, with the exception of the deep greenies, have no problem with it.

Of course, if you talk about political differences between the two sides, that’s a different story.

As for a cultural difference, that a funny greenie kool-aid. :roflmao:

20

tommy,

I know you see this as a proposal that makes things easier… but I see it as making it harder.

There were a ton of very serious policy differences between the KMT and the CCP back in the '30s-'50s. The policy and ideological differences are far greater than what exists between the Blues and the Greens in Taiwan today. 228 is really child’s play compared to the scale of mass killings that defined the political struggle before 1949. The idea of putting the mainland “under the ROC” is a tough sell for many.

Why should either side surrender to the other, and adopt the other? Why not just have the Greater China Confederation like you said, and let each side have its own system in the mean time?