Women: do you humiliate your man?

I learned pretty early on that I was not going to have many chances for love. This isn’t a sob story at all, it is just about a realization I came to in my late teens that the popular culture of relationships in America would prevent me from settling down. At the time I did not think about it in terms of country however, and never realized that the problem might be uniquely American. I didn’t abstract to tell the truth, I just realized it. And what is it I’m talking about? The disrespectful, rude, and demeaning way that so many American women treat their men. Keep in mind that it never occurred to me this was uniquely American. I just thought that it was a man/woman thing in general, and that I was very unlucky to have a problem with it. Afterall, it is widespread. I don’t know at what point in the relationship this happens, but I think it starts with casual jokes, like:

Man forgets about women’s birthday or their three month dating anniversary or something similar. The women takes this as a ripe opportunity for righteous indignation, and tells her man that he’s “in trouble”. She then proceeds to tell everyone she knows that he forgot, as if it was really important. It starts out like this…with casual jokes, finger waiving “you’re in big trouble mister!”, etc. Then it becomes real.

Then the man really is in trouble. The relationship has morphed. It is no longer two adults with mutual and equal respect, but has become a kind of mother and child, or boss and employee relationship. Men are constantly nervous as to what their wives’ next whim will be, and really will be told to sleep on the couch, apologies will be demanded (for ridiculously minor incursions), and sex will be refused. Sex becomes a weapon, not a pleasure. Women will even say it right out loud, in front of her man’s friends. If a man is a “good boy”, then he gets sex; if he’s a “a bad boy”, he’s in the doghouse with no sex. Sex is no longer spontaneous and fun; he just hopes he has appeased his wife enough to get some. Little wonder this is the stage most men think about leaving.

But it usually gets worse before that happens, if it ever happens. Public humiliation replaces or rather enhances private humiliation. The woman has come to the point where she openly orders her husband around, whether it be at home or at the supermarket. Everyone that he knows and she knows will now openly talk about whether he is “in the doghouse” or if he’s been a good boy. She no longer attempts to hide her demands with subtle questions, but out and out tells her husband what he will do, when he will do it, and always with the unspoken understanding of the consequences if he doesn’t.

I know this sounds biographical, but oddly enough it’s not. I met my wife when I was 18 years old, and she does none of these things. But all this did happen to a very good friend of mine, thankfully before he actually got married. His fiancee started acting like this before a marriage ever took place, and he sure gave her a shock when he told her that she had better stop treating him like shite or he would dump her faster than she could say Jack Robinson. Well, she just couldn’t help herself, and it didn’t last.

This behavior is part of our social programming, and we see it everywhere. On TV we have our familiar stereotypes of a helpless, idiotic, defeated husband who slavishly obeys his “honey”, who orders him around like a trained pony. It’s everywhere we look…at home, among friends, and in public.

And, I know I’ll get flamed for this, but I met two American guys (one who was divorced) at Shi-Da who have both vowed to never again date American women because both had similar experiences to the above. It seems that Taiwanese women don’t feel a need to develop this boss/employee relationship that lots of American women do.

So my question to the womenfolk is this: what do you think of the above behavior? Do you do it or know other women who do, and why?

The woman does that to make the man feel guilty (such as forgetting an anniversary, which is very important to the woman) and in doing so, the woman feels better. The woman needs the man to feel bad about something because women think with their hearts and men think with their heads (we’re not talking about that head just yet).

I don’t think the woman means to humiliate the man, but more like to get him to see things from her point of view. If she was looking forward to a big dinner and show on their anniversary and he forgets, it can be very upsetting.

Let’s say there’s a Super Bowl game on and the woman forgets and instead has invited her Tupperware party over, isn’t the man going to get mad?

Sorry, that’s the best I can think of so far. Stay tuned. I have more to say on this matter. :wink:

Hell, as forgetful as I am, I would be the last to “scold” someone for something as trivial as a birthday. I do see how American culture promotes this through television, movies, and treats it as the subject of humor. I never thought of it as this way, but I guess that was how I was raised. But then again, my mother has never chided a man for something as silly as a birthday or for forgetting something. There are far more important things in life. However, she did get after us kids…but as you said, nagging is a parent-child thing, not a husband-wife thing.
I believe the only time I lectured someone with whom I was in a relationship, it was about him lying to me about not having a Taiwanese girlfriend which also served as me dumping his sorry behind. I think that was some well-deserved lecturing, if I say so myself.

—Edited after reading 914’s post—

Okay, I can see where someone might feel upset when an anniversary or birthday is forgotten, but if he tries to make it up, it’s silly to hold a grudge over it. We forget that men (and more often than not, women as well) are not mind readers. If you want to go out for your birthday, tell him. If you make plans and he forgets, however, there’s nothing wrong with feeling upset and disappointed, but to do so over something that he didn’t even know he was supposed to do sounds a little ridiculous to me. Even if it’s an accepted part of our culture. And guys, you have to understand that if your woman is feeling upset, don’t be too surprised that she’s not in the mood to have sex. I think only the most unscrupulous women would use sex as a weapon against someone she loved, which is far from being the norm.

I remember reading somewhere that a woman remembers how to get to places by remembering landmarks (which for me is certainly true). It seems that’s how we also mark our relationships, with landmarks and milestones such as wedding anniversaires, first date anniversaires, birthdays, etc. So forgetting them is kind of like getting lost in a relationship.

And on a by and by to the OP, thank you for posting such an intelligent, balanced, and honest opinion of Western women and for giving some insight on why some men prefer Taiwanese women without referring to anyone’s bodies, femininity, or disparaging remarks about our philosophies. We need more posters like you. :bravo:

My sister orders around her husband both in public and private. I don’t know if her husband feels humiliated by this, but I know that humiliating him isn

I don’t think it’s a female thing. I definately know some males that behave exactly the way you described. But really, that’s not the point.
Some people like it. THAT’s the point.

In a relationship, only the 2 will know exactly what they need from each other and are they getting it. Some people like to nag to show their concern and affection. Afterall, if you don’t celebrate your happiness sometimes, what’s there to live for? I’m talking about annaversaries and etc.
Some people like to be nagged, because that’s how they know they are loved. You wouldn’t nag a stranger to eat more veggie because you don’t care about their health.
You see, that CAN work. It just depends on the couple.

Another example:
One person is mediculously neat.
For someone else, it’ll drive them up the wall to have someone constantly pick up after them and fold stuff.
For another person, it’s a bonus and a quality to be admired.
So, to each their own. The trick is to find the one that matches you.

For a lot of people, they wish to change the other person to suit them…which will never happen. That’s why they run into serious problems. When you are too different and can’t appreciate the differences or can’t compromise, you aren’t meant to be together.
I do make it much simpler than life, but that’s my simple version of it. Sometimes you love each other, but it’s just not enough. And the hard part is to realize it.

ImaniOU wrote:

[quote]And on a by and by to the OP, thank you for posting such an intelligent, balanced, and honest opinion of Western women and for giving some insight on why some men prefer Taiwanese women without referring to anyone’s bodies, femininity, or disparaging remarks about our philosophies. We need more posters like you.
[/quote]

ImaniOU, when I was in high school I loved reading Sigmund Freud books. I read three cover to cover, and when I read about Freud in college I think I had more of an insider’s understanding than my classmates, who only read excerpts from his work. What is always so refreshing about Freud, and why I loved reading him, is his remarkable ability to analyze and criticize himself without demeaning or self-pity. Many of your longer posts on Forumosa very much remind me of Freud in this regard. Your above response honors me.

I have never been to the US but I am pretty sure that even in that country you have the opportunity to CHOOSE yourself a girlfriend. There is no need to get involved with a mean bossy woman; believe me, there are others.

And be careful, not all the Taiwanese women are humble and nice to their bones. :wink:

And we should also start a new thread: Men: do you beat your woman and why/how often? :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote=“kellohitty”]I don’t think it’s a female thing. I definately know some males that behave exactly the way you described. But really, that’s not the point.
Some people like it. THAT’s the point.[/quote/

I agree. Most men I know, although they will never admit it, LIKE to be nagged. My ex-husband even told me that I was “too nice.”
I still cannot believe it!!! Yes I don’t nag, but WHY do so many men expect it, and when it doesn’t happen, they don’t like that situation?

Is it a male thing to feel loved when being “mothered”?

I just can’t do that.

And I’d rather be single than being a good, nagging wife.

And sorry for the second posting, but I just have to say:

DON’T, please don’t, give me flowers or presents when it’s Valentine’s Day or Christmas. I don’t expect them, anyway. If you really want to surprise me, give them to me when it’s spontaneous, IF you really want to do that thing, and when it’s not been pushed down your throat by the media / hype.

banshette wrote [quote]DON’T, please don’t, give me flowers or presents when it’s Valentine’s Day or Christmas. I don’t expect them, anyway. If you really want to surprise me, give them to me when it’s spontaneous, IF you really want to do that thing, and when it’s not been pushed down your throat by the media / hype.[/quote]

:bravo: :bravo: Following the herd is boring. I resent being expected to do certain things at certain times (well, apart from drinking, of course).

I can only applaud you. :bravo:

If you want to read more rants like this, go to www.americanwomensuck.com
It’s quite funny at times, but the owner of the site is a real fascist about banning people who disagree with him.

You know, a week ago I got my arse tapped for complaining about the Taiwanese, and here we’ve got another male sing his ode to other women who are something other than the Amazon chics he wanted but never could have…Yellow cartman, how long is this thread going to continue before it’s locked? :wink:

Verbal and emotional abuse is not a cultural, race, religious, creed thing. ANd that’s basicly what we’re talking about. If you don’t like this type of behavior then 1)make the person you are dealing with know that’s it’s not acceptable or 2) get out of that space. But time and time again you guys come on this board and start your bashing of Western women. Do you guys realize that not only foriegners read Forumosa? Do you understand the impact you are having on the world around you when spead your opinions/beliefs/bad experiences as the truth? You guys realize that many many people will not have the opportunities to leave their countries and live in another one, therefore giving them the chance to see a [color=green]multitude of personalities.[/color] So, they listen, and incorporate your rants, because they trust you, about us and this really colors their behavior and way of interacting with us.
And western women wonder why we can’t get a date in Taiwan…

gao, you basicly feel sorry for your self that it didn’t work out as you would have liked it. Well understand that happens to 100% of the human community. BUt understand that in any relationship, maturity, patience, and positive attitude is a two way street. If you guys are with women who are brash, deaming, abrasive then [color=darkred]YOU[/color] need to ask yourself, why did you choose to be with this person.

Best of luck to all you men who have been soured on American women. But do remember that it’s[color=darkred] you [/color]who has made up your mind that is the way we are therefore you will see us in that manner. I hope that time will heal you and help you remember how fun,lively, adventurous, dedicated, supportive, strong, femine, full of personality and generous we can be and are…

There is another thread just down the page called “Revenge of the Psycho Xiaojie.” I believe there is sufficient anecdotal evidence in that thread to prove that relationships with Taiwanese women are not guaranteed to be perfect. There are foreign guys who have had horrible relationships with local women.

Mr. He has been very open in discussing the problems he had in his marriage. One need only read a few of his posts on the subject to realize that women in Taiwan are not heaven sent. Any guy who believes otherwise is living with blinders on so I wouldn

[quote=“smerf”]
Mr. He has been very open in discussing the problems he had in his marriage. One need only read a few of his posts on the subject to realize that women in Taiwan are not heaven sent. Any guy who believes otherwise is living with blinders on so I wouldn

Two, wait, three of my close Taiwanese girlfriends sometimes, wait, many times, fit your description of American women in regards to the specifics that you provided. I honestly don’t agree with your assessment of American women. From my own personal experiences of having both close American and Taiwanese girlfriends and observing their relationships, the type of behaviors you talked about did not seem to be limited to just one race.

My question is: why don’t you break up with your partner when he or she constantly humiliates you? (I know your wife doesn’t do it to you; I am just raising a general question.) I really do think that both partners are equally responsible for the quality of the relationship, regardless who is instigating the issue at hand. (Domestic violence cases excluded of course.) Blaming game gets us nowhere, and certainly I understand the urge to do so; it’s just not a very skillful way to do life.

PS: To answer your question…(forgot to do that the first time, oops.) I try to the best of my ability to not ever humiliate my man, always. If somehow he ends up feeling humilated by any unintentional beharviors on my part----which certainly happens but thank god not often----then I try to understand why he feels that way without getting defensive and to really listen. Bottom line: I love my man very deeply, and feeling humiliated sucks.

Shit, is this for real? All this time and I’ve been limiting myself to books and DVDs. They have women, too? Who knew?

Excellent question.

I would walk out if it happened again. On the spot.

Namahottie wrote:

[quote]gao, you basicly feel sorry for your self that it didn’t work out as you would have liked it. Well understand that happens to 100% of the human community. BUt understand that in any relationship, maturity, patience, and positive attitude is a two way street. If you guys are with women who are brash, deaming, abrasive then YOU need to ask yourself, why did you choose to be with this person.

[/quote]

Namahottie, I want you to do me a big favor. I mean, this would mean a lot to me. READ MY POSTS BEFORE REPLYING TO ME. I know it’s a bother, but it’s so important to me.

How am I feeling sorry for myself? None of the things in the post happened to me. If you had actually read my post, you would know that I met my wife when I was 18 years old and she does none of the things listed. Everything worked out exactly as I would have liked. It seems like you vaguely skimmed my post, detected that it oh hope of your hopes might be another chance for you to get sanctimonious and have at it. If you had chosen to actually read my post, then I hope you might have agreed with ImaniOU’s evaluation. =)

As for everybody else: thank you all for your responses. Lots of good points raised. A few things though:

914: if anybody forgets about a dinner, man or woman, regardless of the occasion, of course whoever gets stood up will be pissed. I meant just forgetting the actual date itself, not forgetting about a dinner or something. Anyways, I am not referring to an isolated incident where a woman gets upset about something, but rather a pattern of behavior, where humiliation becomes part of the day to day. It’s a situation that many American men are tired of dealing with.

It seems like a popular question is: if a person is in a situation like I described above, why not just leave? I guess I didn’t realize that was an issue. Of course they should leave, and fast! I was just describing a situation I see a lot: women treating their men more like children than lovers. My question to the ladies on here was if you treat your own man like this, and I’m glad to see the answer all around was a resounding NO! :slight_smile: