Women in Politics

FYI here is the newest board member of TI the “first” semi-conductor company…

newsday.com/news/local/wire/ … ional-wire

your ability to know SHIT about semi-conductors does not get you a seat on the board… I did not know that Christine Todd Whitman was a semi-conductor whiz… what I do know is that she is in a position of power…based on her former positions of power… not knowledge of the industry…

edited to add…

bizjournals.com/milwaukee/st … ily14.html

Apparently she knows alot about consumer goods too… :wink:

[quote=“MaPoDoFu”][quote=“Alien”]Exactly. Laws change, but attitudes remain the same.

And FS, how few women are so unqualified to be senior partners and CEOs? The most capable individuals I know are women (proven again and AGAIN)
So, really what it is: a clash with the ‘good old boy network’.[/quote]
Some of the evaluations around here really make me want to barf.

reason.com/9610/fe.rodgers.shtml

How many women have spent thirty years running businesses in, say, the semiconductor industry? When they have, they’ll be qualified to sit on the boards. Until then, you and the nuns can rant all you want to about the “good old boy network”.[/quote]

Come on! Some are qualified to sit on the boards.

sacbee.com/static/archive/ne … cmain.html

Sorry one last point. I am not aware of ANY PACS devoted to men. I believe that each issue is treated separately and I suggest racial, ethnic, religious and gender groups stop focusing on the narrow specifics and look at the overall picture of the kind of government they want rather than who (fit the specific racial/sex category here) that they “represent.” This racial Balkanization started with Blacks and look what it has given them? Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson as their “official” leaders?! Who else needs “official” representatives or “leaders.” I would be insulted if I were Black and one person and one person only could represent me. I think that women’s groups are heading that direction and I think it is a misguided one.

I also think that several women could be elected in the United States as president: Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Dole, Condi Rice and if Margaret Thatcher came over, she would have a good chance too.

As to whether women are treated unfairly in the boardroom, you have the women’s point of view, now here what I hear. Men do not get paternity leaves (though this is starting) and do not “value” family life to the same degree that women do so they are more inclined to make “sacrifices” for the good of the company like intensive and never ending road travel during their first ten years in the company etc. Women are NOT necessarily willing to do so and those that are, get promoted just like everyone else.

So before the US good ole boy network is derided, remember to think first, as a women, would I be willing to sacrifice my family and children to a large extent for my corporate career and advancement. If you hesitate, so perhaps would your managers to promote you. If you are not sure that you are willing to make the long-term sacrifice, then managers sure as hell are going to pick someone who says they are.

As to this old boys network, it is largely a myth. What is this obsession with this anyway. It sounds like the same thing Jews are always accused of, you know, networking too closely wink wink but Chinese are praised for doing so in Southeast Asia because that makes them daring and entrepreneurial? I hear Scandinavian society praised for being cohesive and cooperative, yet this is what is supposedly going on in these good old boy networks, but in this case it is wrong or bad because women “perceive” that it might be excluding them? I challenge you to find the woman who attends these meetings regularly who believes this to be the case. This is mere speculation and ingrained thinking on the part of most of these posters.

Are you telling me that people get together at Amcham or Eurocham or whatever cham and make decisions that go against bottom line purely because they know someone and feel comfortable with them or that there is a male conspiracy (white to boot) to excluse Asian men, Black men and women? Give me a (SYF(S&DF(*DFD(*D&F break. Anyone who thinks that has never been to any of these meetings. Show me the lowest price and the most for my money and I don’t care what color, sex or species you are. That’s what will get you the business.

MaPoDoFu:

Besides, I would argue that there is less ageism in the computer industry. It is not uncommon to have executives in their 30s etc. Therefore, your point on how many women were in the field 30 years ago is moot. Did Dick Cheney have a degree in engineering before he got his job at Halliburton? :laughing: If one has gravitas and experience, their background is secondary. Many women have the experience to be board members, so I think that the CEO you mentioned should go back to Orange County or Silicon Valley or wherever and stick his head where the sun don’t shine.

Chewy

[quote=“fred smith”]

So before the US good ole boy network is derided, remember to think first, as a women, would I be willing to sacrifice my family and children to a large extent for my corporate career and advancement. If you hesitate, so perhaps would your managers to promote you. If you are not sure that you are willing to make the long-term sacrifice, then managers sure as hell are going to pick someone who says they are.
.[/quote]

First, not ALL women want a pack of stinkin kids. The world won’t change until Arnold (muscle man cum movie star cum politician) squirts an infant out of his loins. Oh, right! He did that already.
rottentomatoes.com/m/Junior- … eviews.php
The high point of his career.
Now if women could only pee standing up…

[quote]Now if women could only pee standing up…
[/quote]

Not too difficult it would seem.

But REAL women DO.*

*Put that in your bong and smoke it. :laughing:

And real men knock up real women as often as they can, eh?
What a throw back you are, Blueface.

Damn right. Now get back in the kitchen and bring me some pie! And a beer. :laughing:

And look how well many of them have done over the last few years.

Nonsense. For one, the semiconductor industry is NOT “the computer industry” that you are citing above. For another, Cheney had significant experience in other areas.

Sure, some companies – RealNetworks, for example – hired damn near anyone who could breathe and was a political crony of Rob Glaser (may he burn in Hell). This is how Maria Cant(vote)well made the cash to defeat Slade Gorton in the 2000 election. OTOH, look at how wonderfully RealNetworks has done – it’s a dead company where the executive just managed to snarf a shitload of cash from people dumb enough to put their money into it. They might not have been running active scams like Enron, but they have proven just as effective in what they have accomplished.

Name some of these eminently capable women, then, who aren’t on boards – your mother, perhaps, or Alien? Businesses don’t seem to have much trouble in hiring people of any race or sex who are actually capable. The ones whining about how unfair things are tend to be the ones who don’t have a clue.

The Glass Ceiling

[quote]

Technology

I just found this fantastic panel forum (not our kinda forum! ;-)):
Ceilhttp://www.jfklibrary.org/forum_wom … cs.htmling:
Breaking the Glass Women In Politics
With Loretta Sanchez and Jane Swift, moderated by Martha Raddatzhere

John F. Kennedy Library and Foundation
October 26, 2003

About Jane Swift:

[quote]Our second panelist, as Governor of Massachusetts, Jane Swift rose to the challenge of holding the highest job in our state. In addition to being the first woman Governor in history of Massachusetts , and a very long history at that, Governor Swift is also the first governor in the United States to give birth to twins while serving in office. [Laughter] [Applause]

Her career as an elected official began at the age of 25 when she became the youngest woman ever elected to the Massachusetts State Senate. She also quickly became the youngest woman in Massachusetts Senate history to hold a leadership position when she rose to the rank of Assistant Minority Leader in the Massachusetts Senate. [/quote]

She says:

[quote]So the first thing is women have got to decide theyre just going to do it, its going to be ugly, its going-- You know, theyre going to throw garbage at you all day long. But you have got to become candidates before we’re ever even going to get you elected. Because if youre not on the ballot you can’t get elected. Thats the first-- Well, there was a woman actually that got a write-in ballot, it was great to see in California , but anyway. Pretty much youve got to be on the ballot in order to win, that’s the first thing.

The second thing. The institutions, the political parties, the machinery, the money raising, whether it’s Republican or Democrat, and I’m a Democrat, I love being a Democrat, I think we have greater-- great policies, for a woman, and things of that sort. But I’m talking about the machinery of the parties, in particular, it’s all run by Anglo males. And it’s for Anglo males. And pretty much they dont take a look at women, they dont consider women, they look at themselves in the same, you know-- If we’re looking for a Congressional candidate it’s usually an Anglo male colleague of mine who’s the recruiter, and he goes out and he calls his friends at the state level. Who’s the state senator there? Well usually it’s a white male and he’s got the best name ID so let’s go talk to him and give him the goods and have him run.

They never sit there and go, well there might not be a woman who hangs out there as a state senator but maybe theres a good business woman, or theres someone involved in the community. So the recruiting doesnt happen for women, the money doesnt happen for women, the machinery of the parties dont-- And this happens-- Look, I’m in the Republican Orange County . They dont run women there either, women have to run against the Republican machinery. Just like in a lot of cases any of the women who have gotten to the Congress have usually run against the Democratic machinery or whatever the machinery is.

So we dont have the institutions, whether it’s the DNC or the RNC or anything like this, they really arent ready to hand over the power to women. You know power is never given. You always have to take it. You know, we do not control those levers of power. We make it despite the fact that they put all the obstacles in front of us. And they dont tell us the rules of the game. They tell us the formal rules, they dont tell us the real, informal rules. Like money counts in an election. Its like, oh youre so nice, oh you have a good presence, oh youre so good on policy, oh this and that-- It’s like, oh, you should run, you speak well. What they dont tell you is how can you raise $2 million dollars? We don’t know the real rules. [/quote]

Alien:

Interesting. Well that is one woman’s view and she is a Democrat and she is from Massachusetts so I would put her pretty far to one end of the spectrum.

So will Fred Smith or Blueface or Tigerman or IYBF or Doug McKenzie or Porcelain Princess or Mapodofu or (hey where the hell is Coldfront these days?) get a quick and easy ride up the corporate ladder just because we are all male and moderately conservative (waiting for the guffaw)? Do you think that men have it any easier fighting past all the hungry ambitious other men to rise up the corporate ladder? It is a f—ing hard struggle for every one, men and women.

How did Margaret Thatcher become prime minister of the Tories in England? etc. etc. But all of these people would have had to at some time or another put any and all relationships they had on serious hold. How many women are willing to do this? Not to be sexist but I think as Cosmo and House and Garden have so adequately pointed out, women do value these things more than men in general and are not willing to sacrifice them completely. Now you may be a different case (and thank all that is holy for that!! :wink: ) but many other women may not. So there.

Points taken but I really think that men have it just as hard as women so end of story for me. Besides, you are not supposed to know about the Republican conspiracy to keep women and minorities down. Who the hell told you?! :wink:

[quote=“fred smith”]. How many women are willing to do this? Not to be sexist but I think as Cosmo and House and Garden have so adequately pointed out, women do value these things more than men in general and are not willing to sacrifice them completely. Now you may be a different case (and thank all that is holy for that!! :wink: ) but many other women may not. So there.
[/quote]

See here now, Fred Smith:

You are making a similar argument as old dead dude who one hundred years ago (in the Atlantic article I posted) said women should not need to vote because it’s not in their nature to do so. What lovely Ms. Swift points out is that girls need to start as early as men do on the political trail. She says in the forum I linked above that when she walked into congress at the tender age of 25 it was chock full of older white men, and she found that a bit daunting, but it didn’t deter her. Hell, I’ll let her speak, she’s good at it:

[quote]I was working in the investment banking industry, okay, so that’s totally white male run. It’s no different. People ask me how different it is to work in the Congress, its not that much different. You know I walked into the Congress the first day-- now remember, I’m from California , I’m from a pretty diverse kind of a state. And I go walking into the Capitol on my first day and I walk in there and-- I remember just my mouth dropped open. Because, you know, its older Anglo males. I mean thats the majority of what sits there. So how do we stimulate young women to be in that chamber also? We have to begin at a young age with them.
At the same time that I got elected there was this guy, he took his dads seat, who was a Democrat. He had run for the Congress, he was not yet 25. You have to be 25 in order to be put into the House of Representatives. He was 24, he would be 25 by the time it was time to swear him in. But when he won his election he was 24. I mean heres a guy that started running from the very get-go. So that when he gets into the House hes 25, so that when hes got 20 years seniority he owns the place.

You know, women dont do that. I mean heres Nancy Pelosi, shes six-- Well, I dont want to tell her age [Laughter]. But I mean, shes you know, shes over 60, lets put it that way. Almost all the women in the House are over 60. Some 70. We just lost Patsy Mink last year in her 80s. I mean, when I got to the House the women were so giddy because-- And I didnt realize why, and they said, you dont understand, youre coming to the House at 36. And youre going to have enough time to get seniority, were going to be able to place you well on committee, youre going to be able to make it to the White House. [Applause]

You know, whereas most of them had other things. Had their kids, worked at the local level, got into politics at 50 or so, you know when they got into the House it was too late to get seniority. They just didnt see it there. And I was kind of laughing because I’m thinking if theyve got to be 25 when we get them in-- Like this guy who came in, this guy who came in at 24 but, you know, really was 25. And it was just so interesting because these guys just have a different frame of mind. He came in and I said, you know we were being asked what committees do you want to sit on, he goes, Oh I’m going to be on Ways & Means. Well thats the taxing committee. This guy had gone to college, he was in law school, he ran for Congress, he’d never had a job, and yet he thought he could tax people [Laughter].

I said to him, I don’t think so. [Laughter] [Applause] To this day he’s not on taxing committee and there’s a good reason why. But they just think they can. So we have got to raise our young ladies to think they can. I look at my sister she’s-- You know people say Youre so young?when they meet me. My sister, shes in the Congress, shes ten years younger. [Applause] Ten years younger. She has a degree from Berkeley , she speaks four languages, shes a UCLA Law graduate, shes a civil rights attorney, she was head of the labor movement in my county, and now shes in the Congress. That’s prepared. That’s what we need to do.

We need to start them young, we need to tell them they can, we need to push them to have the pedigree that theyre going to need to get to these positions, we need to put them on campaigns, and weve got to make them understand that even though theyre learning to raise money or theyre learning to walk precinct, theyre not going to do that all their lives for this guy whos going to be the candidate. Theyve got to learn it so they can decide that they like it, so that we can run them. I really feel that thats the way we break those barriers. [Applause]

[/quote]

Alien:

I see your point but see mine. Why is it so important that women or Blacks or Hispanics do anything? Why not fight to get the BEST PEOPLE in the positions to give us the BEST GOVERNMENT that we can have? That’s all I am saying. When are YOU running for office? hee hee hee

[quote=“fred smith”]Alien:

I see your point but see mine. Why is it so important that women or Blacks or Hispanics do anything? Why not fight to get the BEST PEOPLE in the positions to give us the BEST GOVERNMENT that we can have? That’s all I am saying. When are YOU running for office? hee hee hee[/quote]

i dont think it’s getting in women or minorities for its own sake unless it’s in the context of representation in a government. in the marketplace of course meritocracy is ideal, but i think we’re saying that it still hasnt been achieved. and it’s kinda human nature. people tend to hire others who are like them, ‘fit in’, in addition to qualification, so in many cases you get institutions with the same kind of people (be that class, race, background) very generally speaking of course.

i think the problem with women, especially at a young age, as the article above alludes to, is that society still doesn’t expose them to such possibilities in the same way boys are and there are still gender expectations (which may also be to the detriment of boys who might wish to go into ‘non-male’ jobs or those that are ridiculed e.g. nursing).

Male nurses are ridiculed? By whom?

Alien and Fred,

Shame! Shame! Jean Swift was the Republican Governor of Mass. before Mitt Romney. Her comments reinforce my previous comments. Regardless of political ideology, women who decide to enter the dog-eat-dog world, should be given positions of power. I for one believe that my future daughters should be CEOs if they have goods, and I realize they will have to fight certain cultural attidues and hurdles should they choose to enter the modern corporate culture. We all face hurdles, but women have to work harder and make more sacrifces to move up the ladder. We should be generous to the strongs ones. After all, the weak ones are here to service us. heheheheheheh.
:smiling_imp:

Chewy :laughing:

[quote=“sandman”][quote]Now if women could only pee standing up…
[/quote]

Not too difficult it would seem.[/quote]

You mean, you’re girlfriend has never stood up and cleaned ya in the morning. :smiling_imp: