Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?


#581

How’s that


#582

Adams did some sketchy things. Washington and Jefferson owned slaves, Jefferson split up slave families that he owned as punishment to them and he never freed his slaves except maybe those that were also his own children by Sally Hemings after he died; in fact, I don’t think he ever freed Sally Hemings, his slave, mistress and sister-in-law. In all, 12 Presidents owned slaves at some point in their lives. Then there are those Presidents that were Commander-in-Chief during those heady times we were slaughtering Native Americans. And if Horoshima and Nagasaki wasn’t genocide, I don’t know what is.


#583

What did Adams do?


#584

Go forth, son, and study thy history.

And then there’s Abraham Lincoln who signed off on Sherman’s March to the Atlantic. Heck, we still celebrate Lincoln’s birthday.


#585

No, I want to know what you think he did.

We put slavery behind us, in pretty dramatic fashion. If you want to get into Native American issue, we’ll have to blot out the whole country, forget presidents. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Sherman, war.

A clean break was never made here with the Chiang legacy. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.


#586

No clean break? Are you kidding me? If there were no clean break, the last 3 Presidents of the ROC would have been surnamed Chiang. No clean break? I hadn’t realized that Taiwan was still under martial law. No clean break? Which political prisoners are the ROC government keeping behind bars? No clean break? Does Taiwan not have freedom and democracy now? Rubbish. You’re using 2 different standards; apply the same standards to the 2 countries.


#587

It was a mealy process, not clean at all. KMT kept it all, and no one got punished. Swept under the rug, let’s not make a fuss. Gee why would anybody still be upset about it now?


#588

Who got punished for slavery? All Confederates were given a Presidential pardon. Who was punished for the Native American genocide? Who got punished for the Japanese intern camps during WWII? Use the same standards.


#589

Thousands of Japanese Americans were imprisoned for years during WWII. Who got punished for that??


#590

[quote=“Dirt”]
Who got punished for slavery? All Confederates were given a Presidential pardon. Who was punished for the Native American genocide?[/quote]

The entire South was crushed. You said it yourself, that Lincoln and Sherman were evil war criminals. Who was punished for the Taiwan Aboriginal genocide?


#591

[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“Dirt”]
Who got punished for slavery? All Confederates were given a Presidential pardon. Who was punished for the Native American genocide?[/quote]

The entire South was crushed. You said it yourself, that Lincoln and Sherman were evil war criminals. Who was punished for the Taiwan Aboriginal genocide?[/quote]

Who was punished for falsely imprisoning thousands of Japanese Americans during WWII? Use the same standards.


#592

Go ahead, dig up every historical wrong in US history, I’m not going to wait around for you. It won’t change what happened here and why people here are still not right with it. I suppose it’s some kind of evil conspiracy.


#593

There certainly is a dearth of objective analysis of the ROC here.


#594

Of course there is. How could it be otherwise?


#595

I call out to all American expats living in the ROC to come home. There are people here who need your help, like the Iroquois Nation.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= … 3336,d.dmg

Their actions certainly speak to them wanting a nation of their own and not the USA.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam

As you can imagine from their name, the Nation of Islam wants to be a free nation, one of their own, not the USA.

So, come home, come back and help me dissolve the USA and give freedom back to the people of North America. Your fellow North American born people need you to help free them from American oppression; let’s give freedom back to these people.


#596

I think your both right. The US never faced up to its extermination of native people’s and they still got their land stolen from them.

However the ROC/KMT has also not faced up to its massacres of Taiwanese , the white terror and has not apologized and given back its stolen resources.

Not surprising when you see how corrupt and self serving the politicians are here, still, now.

These days they steal the land using ‘the law’.
It’s their favourite saying ‘we do everything according to the law’. ‘We take pictures of you, do surveillance and prosecute you for attending protests under the law’.
‘We take your farmland and turn it into apartments and factories and sell it on for massive profits, it’s the law’.


#597

Find me a leader form any country who ruled without making a single mistake, who had no skeletons in his closet, and I’ll reconsider my utter distaste of CKS.

Washington and Lincoln in particular are regarded as great presidents despite their flaws. Nobody thinks CKS was a good president. From a pan-China perspective, Chiang’s KMT pushed out the communists, turning them to revolt, then lost China, retreated to Taiwan, managed to destroy the democratic system he and Sun Yat-sen had fought to build, and never did succeed in taking back his home.

From a pro-Taiwan perspective, well, there is a lot more to criticize. He acted like a dictator of a banana republic propped reluctantly by US aid because he was a better choice than communism.

Please list for me Chiang’s accomplishments, and we can weigh those against his failures and determine whether he was in fact a good president.


#598

[quote=“Dirt”]I call out to all American expats living in the ROC to come home. There are people here who need your help, like the Iroquois Nation.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= … 3336,d.dmg

Their actions certainly speak to them wanting a nation of their own and not the USA.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam

As you can imagine from their name, the Nation of Islam wants to be a free nation, one of their own, not the USA.

So, come home, come back and help me dissolve the USA and give freedom back to the people of North America. Your fellow North American born people need you to help free them from American oppression; let’s give freedom back to these people.[/quote]

I’m Canadian and my brother works for Indian Affairs as a senior policy advisor so I think our family does not need to sacrifice any more. Of course Canada has already returned great chunks of land, ruled that aboriginal title exists, and made all manner of reparations.

So thanks, but the natives of my land don’t need my help because we have a fair system where they can fight for their rights.


#599

I’m Canadian and my brother works for Indian Affairs as a senior policy advisor so I think our family does not need to sacrifice any more. Of course Canada has already returned great chunks of land, ruled that aboriginal title exists, and made all manner of reparations.

So thanks, but the natives of my land don’t need my help because we have a fair system where they can fight for their rights.[/quote]

Ahh, but the poster is assuming that everyone is American. Careful, you aren’t fitting very well into the paradigm.


#600

What rights can the First Nations fight for that the Taiwanese of today can’t fight for?

I know Muzha Man’s citizenship, but since I’m not Canadian, I didn’t feel right to make the call…

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= … 3336,d.dmg

Even though, there have been calls, as above, for the UN to recognize what Prime Minister John A. MacDonald did was genocide against the First Nations. Also, the “Sixties Scoop” that happened in the 1960’s where First Nations children were forcibly removed from their parents.

Then again, from what I’ve gathered, none of you are ROC citizens.

So, go back home Canadians, go back home and fight for the First Nations to be freed from Canadian Repression. Free the First Nations from Canada’s oppressive rule. Go home. They have every right except the right to their own country, they deserve that, go back to Canada and fight for the First Nations to establish their own country, a non-Canadian, non-Commonwealth nation, a nation they can call their own.

Isn’t that what Taiwanese Independence is all about? Can’t all Taiwanese fight for rights for themselves? All rights except a country called the Republic of Taiwan? Why not go back to Canada and fight for a country called the Republic of First Nations? I can’t imagine they wouldn’t want something like that.