Taiwan: independence/(re)unification/status quo/referendum?


#601

So… If I expressed an opinion that I really want the ROC to take back mainland China and expel the communists and finally reunite China like SYS always wanted… You would still tell me to go home because I’m not an ROC citizen, right?

Very open minded.


#602

In North America the native population struggled for centuries.
In Taiwan one generation of colonialists pretends to be the native population and feels bothered by another generation of colonialists.
All while nobody really cares about or respects the true natives.

Take “land grabbing” for an example: hysterical students through shoes, Hoklo people chant in their annoying prole vernacular because some Taipei businessmen want to rezone farmland. Is any second spent on the fact that Hoklo people did not own the land in the first place? It’s nothing but a form of inherited fencing.


#603

[quote=“hsinhai78”]In North America the native population struggled for centuries.
In Taiwan one generation of colonialists pretends to be the native population and feels bothered by another generation of colonialists.
All while nobody really cares about or respects the true natives.

Take “land grabbing” for an example: hysterical students through shoes, Hoklo people chant in their annoying prole vernacular because some Taipei businessmen want to rezone farmland. Is any second spent on the fact that Hoklo people did not own the land in the first place? It’s nothing but a form of inherited fencing.[/quote]

Nice. Racist and ill-informed at the same time. Much of the land along the west was acquired legally.

In any case it is risible of you to pretend to care about past land grabs. You are just feigning outrage to bash “low class” Hoklo. After all if the first land grab was wrong the second can hardly be righter.


#604

[quote=“hsinhai78”]
Hoklo people chant in their annoying prole vernacular because some Taipei businessmen want to rezone farmland.[/quote]

Wow, you are really quite a racist.


#605

I’m Chinese (Taiwanese if you prefer) and, for the record, I’m also part Hoklo going back hundreds of years on Taiwan. I approve what hsinhai78 said, because it’s the truth; feel free to call me racist, but I know that I’m just criticizing my own people for the wrongs they incurred on the native population of Taiwan.


#606

[quote=“Mucha Man”][quote=“hsinhai78”]In North America the native population struggled for centuries.
In Taiwan one generation of colonialists pretends to be the native population and feels bothered by another generation of colonialists.
All while nobody really cares about or respects the true natives.

Take “land grabbing” for an example: hysterical students through shoes, Hoklo people chant in their annoying prole vernacular because some Taipei businessmen want to rezone farmland. Is any second spent on the fact that Hoklo people did not own the land in the first place? It’s nothing but a form of inherited fencing.[/quote]

Nice. Racist and ill-informed at the same time. Much of the land along the west was acquired legally. [/quote]

While slavery was legal in much of the world until the 19th Century, ownership in slaves was legally transferred. Entire village populations were sold for peanuts and to make ownership visible slaves would be branded like cattle. In North America, British settlers “bought” native land for a few pearls and conches or alcohol.

And you seriously defend this appearance of legality? Because that is all it is.


#607

Really, you agree with this:

Look there is no doubt aboriginals were abused throughout Taiwan’s history. That doesn’t mean that current efforts to prevent unjust land grabs are illegitimate. The farmers in Miaoli for example were the legitimate owners of their land and the evidence suggests they got a raw deal, bullied and coerced by local government and ignored by the central.

And talking about aboriginal land claims in much of the west is nonsense. There is no one left to claim traditional territory.


#608

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]So… If I expressed an opinion that I really want the ROC to take back mainland China and expel the communists and finally reunite China like SYS always wanted… You would still tell me to go home because I’m not an ROC citizen, right?

Very open minded.[/quote]

I’m saying if you want to fight for freedom, come back to the USA and help fight for freedom of your own people. You have a voice in the USA, you can vote, run for office, become President. You can fight for freedom and independence for those in the USA who want it. Let the ROC and her citizens decide her own fate.


#609

Really, you agree with this:

[quote]
Hoklo people chant in their annoying prole vernacular because some Taipei businessmen want to rezone farmland.
[/quote][/quote]

I don’t think you understand Chinese/Taiwanese people’s sense of race and ethnic identity. What hsinhai78 is saying there doesn’t rise to racism in Han ethnic sensibilities. You’re judging him by your Western sensibilities. Don’t do that, Taiwanese people nor Chinese people like that.


#610

I understand the elitism and ethnic chauvinism of many wsr and blue loons very well. Just as I understand the implied message of “you just don’t understand our culture.”

Don’t really care what you think.


#611

Then you would know that when he says “Hoklos” it’s like saying Angelenos or New Yorkers. But I guess you don’t and I guess you don’t want to. Why would anybody take your thoughts on Taiwanese issues seriously if you don’t care to understand? Or just care to understand one side?

Edit: And believe me, a lot of people around you think you don’t understand, they just don’t tell you.


#612

No it’s not. The way he said it (refering to them as ignorant proles) was more akin to saying spics or wetbacks.


#613

No it’s not. The way he said it (refering to them as ignorant proles) was more akin to saying spics or wetbacks.[/quote]

I’m an Angeleno, we get it all the time from the rest of the USA. Have you seen SNL’s skit about us?

Many of us have no problems calling Southerners rednecks either. Doesn’t make us racist.


#614

Yeah sure. Convincing argument.


#615

No it’s not. The way he said it (refering to them as ignorant proles) was more akin to saying spics or wetbacks.[/quote]

I’m an Angeleno, we get it all the time from the rest of the USA. Have you seen SNL’s skit about us?[/quote]

You really are clueless. Bye.


#616

If a White non-Southerner calls a Southerner a dumb “redneck”, is that racist? If a black person calls another black person a stupid “nigger”, are they racist? Please.

edit: The above is very imperfect but the only way I can describe in in Western terms. You all might think you know everything, but growing up in 2 different cultures and 2 vastly different languages, you just know that there are somethings that just can’t be translated, either words or culture. So, please stop judging us by your Western sensibilities, something has been lost in translation.


#617

Yeah sure. Convincing argument.[/quote]

I’ve been told I don’t completely understand and I’m a product of both cultures; I’m reminded of this whenever I go back by family members. You thinking you understand it all is pure arrogance. The older generation (the die hards on both sides of the spectrum) call me little foreigner, they call you foreigner, just not to your face.


#618

Wow, so you understand the meaning of prole? You might want to examine your views of your ancestors more, why the self hate?

It wasn’t simply a group of people wronging another group of people. They were fighting each other too. Everybody was fighting each other, don’t you people read your own history?

The aborigines still maintained some of their domain until the Japanese came in, so they were also responsible.

Of course anybody who has seen the Seedik Bale movie will realise that the aborigines were also comfortable in exterminating each other at times.


#619

Really, you agree with this:

Look there is no doubt aboriginals were abused throughout Taiwan’s history. That doesn’t mean that current efforts to prevent unjust land grabs are illegitimate. The farmers in Miaoli for example were the legitimate owners of their land and the evidence suggests they got a raw deal, bullied and coerced by local government and ignored by the central.

And talking about aboriginal land claims in much of the west is nonsense. There is no one left to claim traditional territory.[/quote]

Mostly right except there ARE still Pingpu descendants who are pushing for recognition, I believe something like three tribes.

Much of the Taisugar land was actually their ancestral land, if I recall rightly. If course the Pingpu are almost all mixed Aboriginal-Chinese heritage now.


#620

I know that but these claims are not for the entire west coast and would be absurd if they were. There’s no claim on farmland for example in Dapu so hsinhai’s point is stillborn.