I think a lot of that is fair, every system needs checks and balances, any President needs those in place.
But to get perspective, if you are on the side of the intelligence services and are hoping they can take out the president, think how messed up it would be if you were going back in history and were egging on the intelligence community to take out J.F.K? Thats really how messed up it is.
Notwithstanding comparisons between J.F.K and Trump, if you are on the side of the deep state to take out an elected President, you have wondered very far off the path.
Well, sure, if you believe in a deep state. Didnât you just a few posts ago say you prefer to think the best of people?
Iâm of the opinion that people just have personal biases, and sometimes they can interfere with their jobs. In Muellerâs investigation, heâs actually handled such people incredibly well, but it doesnât stop people from screaming âSEE!!! DEEP STATE!!!â
Trump canât be an asshat to almost everybody and then use the fact that people donât like him as evidence of some deep state conspiracy. But Iâd bet youâd find plenty in the intelligence community who are perfectly okay with him. Or maybe not, possibly because they know stuff we donât.
Iâm not really one whoâs going to scream âImpeach!â at every little thing, but say the FBI does interview Trump and he gets caught in an obvious lie (fairly likely), I wouldnât feel bad that his ego brought him down.
If you want to find a comparison to an old president, look into Nixon. Nixon was somewhat controversial and constantly attacked the media. He had a Vice President that was a much scarier prospect to the point that he was untouchable. Spiro Agnew. He got brought down for tax evasion and was replaced with Gerald Ford who was more cuddly. Despite Watergate already being investigated, Nixon was re-elected partly because of Spiro and partly because the whole âfake newsâ narrative worked well for Nixon. When a special prosecutor was assigned, the âwitch huntâ narrative about the special prosecutor worked well. He tried to get his Attorney General to fire the Special Prosecutor, and I think he had to go through 2 of them until he could find one who didnât have a problem doing it (the others had taken an oath that it went against).
He had a fervent supporters that wouldnât buy that Nixon could have possibly done anything wrong, who thought the constant media coverage was a travesty. The words âfake newsâ may not have been used but that was certainly the tone. Trump will probably tell you he invented both the words âfakeâ and ânewsâ, believe him.
So, basically, I donât hope that Trump is taken down. I just think itâs worth looking into because there is plenty there that people should be concerned about. The âfake newsâ and âwitch huntâ narratives, together with caginess and lying, just exacerbate that for me.
And with that, Iâll leave you with the immortal words of Kanye West.
I do, sincerely. Take the memoâs from Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, these are not evil people, they genuinely believed what they were doing was right. They had a contempt for politicians, I suspect that is a commonly held view in the FBI.
They intensely hated Trump, not unlike many Americans and thought they had a responsibility to do something about it. That really wasnât their job.
Right now Devin Nunes is looking to hold Sessions in contempt of Congress. Iâm not looking at this just from a partisan perspective. We have a Trump presidency, Sessions is a Trump appointee and Nunes is a Republican, yet is being stonewalled by the DOJ in his requests for information.
Thatâs not how a system of checks and balances is supposed to work.
Hm, sounds like grandstanding but thatâs a fascinating turn of events. Weâll see how it plays out. I assume the subpoena will just be quashed in due time.
I was 9 years old when Nixon left office so my perspective is limited. My parents campaigned for him. When he was found out, my folks were disappointed to a point where they decided never to get into politics again. I donât think they were alone in this view. In fact, this might have been the turning point when Americans became so jaded against politics. Iâm not sure you can say that Nixon voters in the 70âs are the same as Trump voters today. Itâs my view based on examples in my experience that the US has evolved light years in terms of opportunity and has become desensitized with all of the violence that we take in through various forms of media for entertainment or news.
I canât really speak to your parents experience. I wasnât even born back then but have looked into it a bit. As a quick timeline: Watergate happened before his re-election, and it was announced that one of those arrested for Watergate was a republican security something-or-other before he was re-elected. I think it was at least 2 years before the public woke up that Nixon was guilty as sin despite how hard he feigned innocence. He constantly attacked the media and the investigation, and the public bought it for the most part. Also, nobody wanted Agnew.
My post wasnât really about supporters, it was more about the tactics used by the presidents themselves. It does make sense that people arenât going to change their views based on the information thatâs available right now. I think things are going to be much clearer years from now.
Not just presidents though, itâs also how people in the intelligence community (in this case a guy called blow job) thinks they should save the public from themselves by going outside of the law and leaking information to the press in order to bring about the end of a presidency.
Sound familiar? Except instead of one guy who wants to save the public from themselves, you have a whole cabal at the top of the DOJ/FBI/CIA/DNI doing it now. MSM is lapping it up, and it seems to me, for the people who hate Trump, like Bill Mather, hope they succeed.
Not really sure what i would say to people like that. âMight as well do away with elections altogether and just let the permanent establishment choose who they want in power, accept they are your overlords and you have no say whatsoeverâ.
It sounds like youâre arguing that Nixon was shafted. Thatâs a bold strategy, Cotton.
Who the heck is Bill Mather? Itâs the second time youâve brought him up and I donât know who that is.
Trumpâs no doubt floated that idea.
And donât you worry about the MSM, Fox News still has his back. Well, most of them. But it wouldnât surprise me if next week we found out that Sean Hannity was Trumpâs illegitimate son. I have a google alert, set just in case.
Sounds like you are imagining what it is I am saying. Iâm just stating some facts, it was someone in the intelligence community who decided to work with journalists to bring down the President.
Talk show pundit, Im sure he is not alone in rooting for the deep state, Im sure there will be others who do the same.
He did, said about how wonderful it was Chinaâs President made himself President for life and maybe they should float the idea in the Sates. Of course he was 100% serious.
With that, you failed I believe to address anything I just wrote. I didnât even mention the Hillary Clinton cover up, the DOJ ordering an investigation into the Clinton foundation be shut down. That the Muller investigation which was supposed to be looking into Russia collusion, they donât seem to have taken the DNC servers for forensic analysis, they havenât looked into Clintons role in paying Fusion GPS millions to actually collude with Russions.
Itâs a farce, itâs a âget Trumpâ investigation. Using fraudulent opposition research documents to obtain title 1 FISA warrants, breaking into Manaforts home at 3am for something related to Ukraine in 2004, intimidating and sending the message âthis is what will happen to you if you join the Trump teamâ. Raiding his lawyers office to get the dirt on Trump.
Thanos looks smaller than I thought he would. I thought CNN was on Stomy Daniels 24/7 lately. Even their own viewers seem to have got bored with Russia collusion.
N.K. related they are gleefully pointing out the N.K. state run propaganda where the N.K. tell Trump to stop flapping his stupid lips. âHey everyone, we love N.K. propaganda nowâ
Forgive me for thinking you had an opinion about this. I guess?
Why would I address your conservative conspiratorial rant about the establishment overlords fixing an election that âtheyâ already lost? Itâs ridiculously inflammatory. Trump won the election and you seem incredibly upset about it for some reason.
That being said, Fox does have his back and it seems to be one point of contention is the MSMâs reporting. So I absolutely did address something you wrote. They spend a lot of their time doing damage control for Trump, trying to save him from himself. But hereâs the rest of it anyway.
One may say âwhistle blowerâ but okay, have at it.
Ah, youâre obviously talking about that time Trump leaked confidential Israeli intelligence to Russia followed by fervent denials from the White House followed by a tweet from Trump confirming itâs true. Or the time Trumpâs lawyer leaked Mueller questions followed by Trump tweeting outrage over it?
Truth be told, I imagine youâre right when you say this Bill Mather fellow probably wonât care if Trump is impeached. But if heâs impeached, itâs probably due to his own stupidity. I have no problem with that at all, although Pence is further-to-the-right than Trump⌠so itâs not ideal. But he hasnât been impeached, so just at the moment him crying foul just sounds like a 5 year old screaming, âWHY IS EVERYBODY SO MEAN TO ME!â
Later adding, âLosers!â and âNo Collusion!â Then âNo Collusionâ maybe three or four more times, to really hammer it home.
You could probably just take a breath and shrug it off. Nobodyâs suggesting anything similar to what youâre saying, but they are going to take Trump to task for his conflicts of interest. Heâs the President of the United States.
Whataboutism. If there was a crime there, theyâd be able to do something about it. You seem to have forgotten that Trump is the president. It could be done. But Trump paying an Israeli firm for anti-Iran information should be more of a worry than Clinton paying a lawyer to pay a firm to pay an ex-MI6 agent to get some dirt on Trump from Russia. The FISA warrant stuff may or may not be bad, but thatâs seemingly how the system is set up and I donât think Trump is working with them to change it.
Treason, potentially. Campaign finance crimes at the very least, it seems. Donât ask me to explain it, apparently CNN never shuts up about it so youâre in good hands. But if he didnât lie so much, people probably wouldnât be so hard on him. But he does, so we are.
Manafort seemingly committed some very serious crimes. Him being indicted shouldnât bother you so much. We shall see about Cohen, but Stormy Daniels had her case delayed because Cohen is probably going to be charged. If heâs not charged by the time the 90 days is up, Iâll probably change my tune a bit on him. Again, if Trump and his minions werenât such lying liars who lie about it we wouldnât be so hard on him. Or at least I wouldnât. But they are, so I am.
Yeah, Iâm really sticking it to Trump with my inane posts on forumosa.com. Take that, OPOS!
No, we also loved it when they called Trump a dotard. Also, you have been banned from /r/pyongyang
Alright, you made a serious attempt, I will give you credit for that. We will agree to disagree on most of what you just wrote. But we can revisit as things develop.
Looks like we are looking at this from a very different perspective. I thought this was a good interview, itâs pretty lengthy, I doubt it will change your mind at all. But I thought I would just leave it here.
You think youâre safe because you abstain from Kool-Aid, but that wonât stop them from spiking your tea.
If you really want to draw conclusions from leaks (as if they were a new phenomenon), whatâs up with leaking all the questions Robert wants to ask Donnie when they finally get around to the formal interrogation? That wouldnât be beneficial to Donnie now, would it?
There is not going to be a âformal interrogationâ of the President. Once you accept that is his position, whatever he says in public about how much he is looking forward to talking to Muller, then the leaked questions make sense in that they lend weight to Mullerâs real intent, which is to catch Trump in a lie.
Doesnât make it right, however Muller it would appear is not really interested in actually seeking justice, both Muller and Trump seem to be playing to the court of public opinion. If I were a betting man, I would say Trump knows how to do this far better than Muller.
Did you really think he was going to release his tax returns? I mean, he said he was going to, must be true, right?
