Another rant

Discussion Open Forum
41

Exactly. And I think that’s what the essence of the OP’s rant. I have to deal with it constantly. I have had the following conversation about a million times in the past year.

Somebody: May I ask you a personal question?
Me: Sure. Fire away.
Somebody: Do you go to church?
Me: No. You?
Somebody: Yes I do, most certainly I do. Would you like to visit my church this Sunday?
Me: No, thank you for the offer.
Somebody: Are you a Christian?
Me: I was raised Christian, but no, not any longer.
Somebody: Why not?
Me: I just no longer believe.
Somebody: But why?
Me: Um…
Somebody: Are you an atheist?
Me: Yes.
Somebody: (Gasp). So what do you think of believers? Do you think we’re all stupid and deluded? Is 94% of the world stupid and deluded? Is that what you atheists think?

That inevitably how it ends in one way or another. They ask me if I’m religious. I say no. They get offended and demand to know why I look down on them for their beliefs, even though I’ve made no such comment or suggestion.

I had a weird one crop up a few months ago, more along the lines of the OP’s experience. Went something like this.

Somebody: My husband and I are thinking about moving to Saudi Arabia. I hear you know a lot about Middle Eastern history.
Me: No, I don’t. I only know a little. But I can recommend some good books.
Somebody: Thanks, but I just really wanted to know if it’s true they still stone women over there.
Me: Yes, it’s true.
Somebody: Wow. I heard that was just a myth. That’s like, medieval. Gosh.
Me: Well, they do it.
Somebody: But why?
Me: Well…Saudi Arabia is an Islamic state. They follow Islamic law. Do you know anything about Islamic law?
Somebody: No, but you do? Wow, you must know so much.
Me: Not really. This stuff is pretty well known. They have lots of barbaric punishments over there. They stone women for adultery, they stone gays, they cut off thieves’ hands. That kind of stuff. Just be real careful if you move there. They usually house Americans in special complexes. If you leave the complex just make sure you’re wearing Islamic dress, and also, don’t travel alone. Otherwise I’m sure you’ll be fine. I hear the people are really friendly.
Somebody: First off, barbaric? That’s kind of a racist thing to say. Second off, I’ll travel by myself if I want to.
Me: Um…I said the punishments are barbaric. I didn’t say anything about the people. In fact, I said they were friendly. And you yourself said that stoning women is medieval.
Somebody: I know what I said. You don’t have to throw it back in my face.
Me: Um…
Somebody: And I go out by myself all the time.
Me: Fantastic. I gotta go now. See you later.
Somebody: Wait!
Me: …Yes?
Somebody: Thanks for the advice.
Me: No problem. I hope it was helpful. Good luck to you and your husband. Just remember to wear Islamic dress if you’re going to travel, especially by yourself.
Somebody: Of course I’ll wear Islamic dress. I will respect their culture. I’m not racist.
Me: And I am?
Somebody: I didn’t say that.
Me: Yes you…nevermind, gotta go. Bye.

It’s annoying when people ask questions but refuse to hear the answer. It’s twice as annoying when they ask for advice, and then criticize your advice. How come I end up dealing with all the freaks?

42

You don’t have to say anything. For some people, your mere existence is more than they can take.

Here’s my arrogant explanation: You’re scaring them, because when facing you they have to face their own insecurity. They don’t want you to conform to their ways because they are worried about you, no, they are worried about having made a big mistake themselves. Maybe going to church is a waste of time? Maybe the beach is a much nicer place than the shopping mall? You’re offending them by having made different choices and not feeling completely miserable about it (which is what they wanted to hear when asking their questions).

43

You don’t have to say anything. For some people, your mere existence is more than they can take.

Here’s my arrogant explanation: You’re scaring them, because when facing you they have to face their own insecurity. They don’t want you to conform to their ways because they are worried about you, no, they are worried about having made a big mistake themselves. Maybe going to church is a waste of time? Maybe the beach is a much nicer place than the shopping mall? You’re offending them by having made different choices and not feeling completely miserable about it (which is what they wanted to hear when asking their questions).[/quote]

I think you’re right. I get the same thing when people find out I’m married and don’t have children. They get offended, as if my reproductive decisions are aimed at insulting them. But again you’re right, I think that when people hear I don’t have children and may never have children (my wife and I are still thinking about it actually), it forces them to confront their own life choices.

44

You two “think too much.”

Why do you think humankind evolved the universally understood…shrug…for answering stupid questions and dealing with ridiculous circumstances?.. :idunno:

45

Don’t be silly, Tom. Why should I have to make the effort to accomodate someone else’s personality problems in conversations they have initiated? Why can’t they just respect my point of view? Why don’t they ‘think across’? Or just let the matter drop?

JD obviously understands my point. These are conversations where the problem lies with the fact that someone else is prolonging an exhange that could be ended easily with a shrug, like TC suggested.

It starts with someone asking for information about a topic, usually personal information about you with the alleged intention of trying to get to know you better. (Or examples of ways in which Taiwan makes life unnecessarily difficult for foreigners.)

The information, such as the fact that you’re not married or don’t go to church, is not in accordance with their opinion about how things should be. It makes them uncomfortable. Instead of a ‘fact’ they are now dealing with what they perceive as a problem for you. They want to help you change your circumstances so that you’ve got a nice woman in your life or a goodly dose of Jesus every week. So they make suggestions that are actually rather unwelcome. They’ve imagined a problem because you don’t see things the way they do and are now proposing solutions that work for them.

The focus of the conversation has moved. Instead of being about you, a topic you will reluctantly discuss, it’s now about a non-existent problem - their problem, not yours. Why are you being forced into this discussion?

Rejecting their solution, because it’s inappropriate for you personally, without making any criticism of them, is still a challenge to their values. It’s questioning the way they do things. The smart thing for them to do is just to shut the fuck up at this point. But usually they will be unable to accept this imagined criticism and will then start arguing to justify what they believe.

So the focus of the conversation has gone, in a few seconds, from polite enquiry about facts that can mostly be verified or refuted, to an argument to prove some point of view that is not really relevant to the original topic and is entirely subjective in any case. It’s an unwinnable, pointless waste of time and these people are stupid for creating these situations.

Which is better?

A: Are you married?
B: No, I’m single.
A: Oh, I see. And where do you come from?
…

A: Are you married?
B: No, I’m single.
A: Oh, why is that?

If you choose the second option then we’re into difficult territory, but there’s still a chance to prevent the situation getting ridiculous:

A: Oh, why is that?
B: I don’t like girls with flat noses.
A: I know a couple of big noses, if that helps. (Keeps the focus on the presumed problem.)
…

A: Oh, why is that?
B: I don’t like girls with flat noses.
A: Why not? Flat noses are cute. ( :unamused: )

46

Yes, why are these people bothering me? Why can’t they just leave me alone? Or are you asking why their actions are causing me irritation? There has been a surfeit recently, enough to exceed my limited supply of patience.

The thread about ways to make Taiwan more attractive to foreigners is a good example.

You post facts that can be verified or refuted quite simply, and people take offense at you pointing out something that challenges their deeply-held belief that they have made the right decision in making whatever level of commitment to Taiwan they have.

Discussing the reasons why some people don’t come here (ie answering the question of how you can persuade them to) questions their sanity or intelligence in coming here. Stating that X was not an issue for you personally, or describing the work-around that you found, does not change the fact that the obstacle exists. If the question is what obstacles can be removed, then why do we have to waste hours in emotional arguments accusing people of ranting when all they’ve done is state that X (which is a provable or disprovable fact) exists and may be a problem for someone else?

Idiocy. An inability to read and understand. Lack of willingness to appreciate the other guy’s perspective. Arrogance, in fact. Sheer selfish, stupid, mind-buggeringly infuriating, insecure emotional bollocks. And wholly undeserved. If you can’t deal with reality then go find a place to nurse your denial, but don’t expect me to change the facts just to conform to your sad perceptions of how things should be.

47

Yes, why are these people bothering me? Why can’t they just leave me alone? Or are you asking why their actions are causing me irritation? There has been a surfeit recently, enough to exceed my limited supply of patience.

The thread about ways to make Taiwan more attractive to foreigners is a good example.

You post facts that can be verified or refuted quite simply, and people take offense at you pointing out something that challenges their deeply-held belief that they have made the right decision in making whatever level of commitment to Taiwan they have.

Discussing the reasons why some people don’t come here (ie answering the question of how you can persuade them to) questions their sanity or intelligence in coming here. Stating that X was not an issue for you personally, or describing the work-around that you found, does not change the fact that the obstacle exists. If the question is what obstacles can be removed, then why do we have to waste hours in emotional arguments accusing people of ranting when all they’ve done is state that X (which is a provable or disprovable fact) exists and may be a problem for someone else?

Idiocy. An inability to read and understand. Lack of willingness to appreciate the other guy’s perspective. Arrogance, in fact. Sheer selfish, stupid, mind-buggeringly infuriating, insecure emotional bollocks. And wholly undeserved. If you can’t deal with reality then go find a place to nurse your denial, but don’t expect me to change the facts just to conform to your sad perceptions of how things should be.[/quote]
:bravo:

48

I feel like I’m supposed to make up this weird little foreigner life, sometimes. Some days I just tell the truth.

Husband? Parents? Children? Appearence? Salary? You asked personal questions, now you’re going to get personal answers which will embarrass the hell out of you. If I am feeling nice, I will take on the psychological discomfort of making up a lie about, for example, why I don’t have children to make up for someone else’s lack of social skills.

If people ask me rude personal questions, I reply in Chinese. People are less disrespectful, I find.

49

Why on EARTH would anyone ask that? I’d have thought it was patently obvious.[/quote]

Sorry for coming in late here, but I really felt compelled to call you, Sandman, on what I see as a truly egregious breach of good manners.
It’s horribly unfair to Loretta to make this kind of comment.
The world is full of hideously disfigured and colossally grotesque people who have managed to find happiness with another person.
Imagine, for a moment, how Loretta must feel upon contemplating your supposition that, on account of her sheer baby-scaring, milk-curdling, hair-whitening ugliness, she’s doomed to single-tude forever!
Don’t listen to him, Loretta!
There’s someone out there for you, I can guarantee.
Someone who will love you for who you are inside, who doesn’t care that you look like you should be in a circus sideshow in the midwest somewhere.
Take heart, girl!
We’re all rooting for you!

50

[quote=“Buttercup”]I feel like I’m supposed to make up this weird little foreigner life, sometimes. Some days I just tell the truth.

Husband? Parents? Children? Appearence? Salary? You asked personal questions, now you’re going to get personal answers which will embarrass the hell out of you. If I am feeling nice, I will take on the psychological discomfort of making up a lie about, for example, why I don’t have children to make up for someone else’s lack of social skills.

If people ask me rude personal questions, I reply in Chinese. People are less disrespectful, I find.[/quote]

What if those private questions are from your really good friends who are really care about your?

51

They would never be my good friends if they asked me questions like that. I don’t like people I don’t like.

52

Yes exactly. I always play it as “if they want me to know they’ll tell me in time”

53

mm…hangover replaces floating/flying feeling.

painful.

54

[quote=“Funk500”]
Yes exactly. I always play it as “if they want me to know they’ll tell me in time”[/quote]

Absolutely agree! The best way to protect both sides.

55

Oh but I do understand Loretta what you’re ranting about. I just don’t give a fwak anymore.
And being an over 30-ish single woman in Taiwan, I had my fill from everyone as to why I wasn’t with someone.

I just learned to turn it into entertainment for myself, being that I am crystal clear about my reasons for being single and all that means to others, espcially those who haven’t had any real life expriences=coasting thru life, hiting all the markers :unamused:

A: Do you have a boyfriend?
Me: Nope, been to busy burning bras.
A: ???

A:Why aren’t you married?
Me: God is perserving me.
A:?

A:Do you want to get married?
Me: I like my money and don’t want to part with it during the divorce settlement.
A:?

56

[quote=“Loretta”]You post facts that can be verified or refuted quite simply, and people take offense at you pointing out something that challenges their deeply-held belief that they have made the right decision in making whatever level of commitment to Taiwan they have.

Discussing the reasons why some people don’t come here (ie answering the question of how you can persuade them to) questions their sanity or intelligence in coming here. Stating that X was not an issue for you personally, or describing the work-around that you found, does not change the fact that the obstacle exists. If the question is what obstacles can be removed, then why do we have to waste hours in emotional arguments accusing people of ranting when all they’ve done is state that X (which is a provable or disprovable fact) exists and may be a problem for someone else?

Idiocy. An inability to read and understand. Lack of willingness to appreciate the other guy’s perspective. Arrogance, in fact. Sheer selfish, stupid, mind-buggeringly infuriating, insecure emotional bollocks. And wholly undeserved. If you can’t deal with reality then go find a place to nurse your denial, but don’t expect me to change the facts just to conform to your sad perceptions of how things should be.[/quote]

:notworthy: quality posting!.. good man that man…

57

Loretta, all you need is the stink-eye. Stops 'em dead every time. Buttercup’s method is also good. Total divulgence, liberally embellished. If asked about the marriage thing, allowing a tear to escape can be a very effective embarrassment accentuator. If an unwanted salary question or whatever, allowing your voice to gradually creep up in stridency and angry shrillness, accompanied by increasingly flamboyant hand and body gestures can also result in furtive sideways glances and embarrassed grins, especially if you’re in an enclosed puvlic space with lots of people around.
I prefer the stink-eye though. Less effort.

58

or you could start beating yourself across the head and start whooping… that also does the trick… I speak from experience

59

[quote=“sandman”]
I prefer the stink-eye though. Less effort.[/quote]

This is a very good way to attract some girls who have the tendency of being abusee. (Do we have this word?)
I know some girls who like cold-blood man.

60

Loretta: Your examples show someone trying to get into a convo. You don’t wish to have the convo. So you should just switch it back on them.

A: Are you married?
Lor: No. Are you?
A: Yes.
Lor: Did you get married to stiffle your personal freedom?

A: Do you go to church?
Lor: No. Do you?
A: Yes.
Lor: I go to the beach. Have you been to BaiShaWan?

As for the whole ‘justify why I live in Taiwan,’ thing. Well, if you live in a country where you don’t understand the rules, don’t truly understand the language or culture, you are powerless to vote/ buy a house/ be real, local people treat you with either contempt or fascination. Of course you will defend yourself. Living in Taiwan is ultimately a ridiculous proposition tempered by alcohol or personal trappings.

To say that other people are stupid is to miss the point of being alive. Get out there and learn to appreciate other people for their differences, or move back to the UK.

You know my feelings on living in Taiwan.