A bit more correct as an overwhelming % of LEGAL Hispanic citizens back the new bill.[/quote]Keep believing that![/quote]
Prove it is not correct.[/quote]
Only time will tell.
Logic dictates that as more and more legislative attacks come out against Hispanics, Hispanics will be less and less inclined to vote for the people launching these attacks. Just you watch.[/quote]
Here’s one poll. From the WSJ.
wsj :roflmao:
liberal, hippy, commie, pinko rag.
‘Whites vs. Hispanics’ is an improper dichotomy, and may skew poll results. White is a skin color and a general reference to those with European (including Spanish) ancestry. Hispanic is a vague descriptor of regional origins, and includes primarily Latin Americans of varying degrees of Spanish ancestry, from pure (and therefore completely white) to heavy mixtures with indigenous blood. Many Hispanics ARE white, like me. The categories overlap. If you force someone to choose between saying they are white and Hispanic, some Hispanics may choose the former and others the latter, even though some are both. Some may answer one way in one poll, and the other way in another. Which they answer may even vary according to context, as notions of self-identity can be primed by various factors.
So if you ever design a poll, please be sure to ask whether someone is Hispanic in a different question from the one asking whether they’re white, or allow for choice of non-Hispanic white versus Hispanic (whether white or brown-skinned or somewhere in between) to get meaningful answers. And take with a large grain of salt the results of ANY poll which doesn’t allow the ‘both’ choice.
[quote=“HB2281”]Prohibits a school district or charter school from including in its program of instruction any courses or classes that:
Not happening, so no need for the law.
Not happening, so no need for the law.
Does this mean they can’t teach students to take pride in their ethnic heritage?
So what are they really trying to do by passing this law?
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/05/ethnic-studies-banned-arizona
Yeah, as if this law will convince Latinos that Republicans don’t hate them. 
[quote=“Dr. McCoy”]Here’s one poll. From the WSJ.
online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 … 73820.html[/quote]
I’ve seen this drama play out time and time again over the years. Republicans spend years of time and effort carefully courting Hispanics support, to a surprising degree of success. But then they blow it when they start once again to scapegoat immigrants, and promptly lose the support of Hispanics. You see, many legal citizens were once illegal immigrants themselves, or their parents were; many of them have friends and relatives who are or were illegal immigrants.
For instance, it happened in California when governor Pete “Puto” Wilson (as a Hispanic man I met called him: “puto” means “asshole”) kept getting more and more anti-immigration, angering the key Latino demographic. His successor was a Democrat.
WTHeck is taught in Chicano studies, and why on earth do they have a whole program for it?
[quote=“redandy”][quote]
Tuscon Unified School District’s Chicano studies program
[/quote]
WTHeck is taught in Chicano studies, and why on earth do they have a whole program for it?[/quote]
I don’t know exactly, but here’s a link to the East Asian Studies Program at Yale University.
yale.edu/yalecollege/publica … udies.html
Here’s a link to the African American Studies Program at Harvard University.
aaas.fas.harvard.edu/graduate_program/
Here’s a link to the Near Eastern Studies Program at Princeton.
princeton.edu/~nes/
Here’s a link to the Oriental Studies Program at Oxford University.
orinst.ox.ac.uk/
Here’s Oxford’s program on Hebrew and Jewish Studies
orinst.ox.ac.uk/hjs/index.html
Here’s their African Studies program
africanstudies.ox.ac.uk/
And here’s their Arabic Studies program
orinst.ox.ac.uk/iw/index.html
I’ll let you look up Chicano Studies for yourself.
[quote=“Mother Theresa”][quote=“redandy”][quote]
Tuscon Unified School District’s Chicano studies program
[/quote]
WTHeck is taught in Chicano studies, and why on earth do they have a whole program for it?[/quote]
I don’t know exactly, but here’s a link to the East Asian Studies Program at Yale University.
yale.edu/yalecollege/publica … udies.html
Here’s a link to the African American Studies Program at Harvard University.
aaas.fas.harvard.edu/graduate_program/
Here’s a link to the Near Eastern Studies Program at Princeton.
princeton.edu/~nes/
Here’s a link to the Oriental Studies Program at Oxford University.
orinst.ox.ac.uk/
Here’s Oxford’s program on Hebrew and Jewish Studies
orinst.ox.ac.uk/hjs/index.html
Here’s their African Studies program
africanstudies.ox.ac.uk/
And here’s their Arabic Studies program
orinst.ox.ac.uk/iw/index.html
I’ll let you look up Chicano Studies for yourself.[/quote]
MT, why all the links to university-level courses, when the “Mexican studies” in question are for kindergarten through to grade 12? Seems like comparing oranges and apples. Oh wait, mentioning fruit might be insensitive, seeing as so much fruit picking is done by our friends from south of the border. Let’s just say comparing specialised courses at Oxford University with what six-year-olds learn is a bit of a stretch.
Most elementary schools don’t post their curriculums online. But I figured if a subject is worth studying at Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Oxford, perhaps it’s not too flaky for the young 'uns too, which is apparently what redandy was suggesting.
Most elementary schools don’t post their curriculums online. But I figured if a subject is worth studying at Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Oxford, perhaps it’s not too flaky for the young 'uns too, which is apparently what redandy was suggesting.[/quote]
I think the level of the teaching skills and courses taught at ANY university far exceeds that of primary and secondary education.
I seem to recall a “political science” course for 4th graders, during the election where the teacher told a kid whose dad was voting for McCain, “McCain if for the war. He says we’re going to be in Iraq 100 years. Your daddy is in the Army. Do you want your daddy to be in Iraq for 100 years?”
Yeah, thanks. I’ll take my ethic courses in college thanks.
[quote=“Chris”][quote=“HB2281”]Prohibits a school district or charter school from including in its program of instruction any courses or classes that:
Not happening, so no need for the law.
Not happening, so no need for the law.
Does this mean they can’t teach students to take pride in their ethnic heritage?
So what are they really trying to do by passing this law?
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/05/ethnic-studies-banned-arizona
Yeah, as if this law will convince Latinos that Republicans don’t hate them. [/quote]
Chris you seem VERY familiar with the courses this law was made to prevent. Would you please list them or link them for me. I’d like to see what the hubbub is about.
When it comes to the letter of the law, there are no courses as described. So why enact the law? Obviously for some other reason.
I mean, “courses or classes that promote the overthrow of the United States government”? Puh-lease. Only paranoid nuts believe such courses are being taught.
As outlined in the article, the law is more of a vendetta by Tom Horne, who has long clung to a grudge because Dolores Huerta had the audacity to tell the truth.
Besides, why on earth would a state legislature and a governor make the effort to pass a law dictating classes that may or may not be taught in school?
Shouldn’t that be a matter for the School Board? Aren’t they the ones who were elected to make such decisions, presumably because they are deemed better qualified to decide such issues than other lawmakers?
The lawmakers must have an awfully compelling reason to overlook all the other matters they could/should be working on in order to step into the area of developing school curriculums, like that.
Hmmm, I wonder what could have been so compelling and urgent to require them to take such action? 
When it comes to the letter of the law, there are no courses as described. So why enact the law? Obviously for some other reason.
I mean, “courses or classes that promote the overthrow of the United States government”? Puh-lease. Only paranoid nuts believe such courses are being taught.
As outlined in the article, the law is more of a vendetta by Tom Horne, who has long clung to a grudge because Dolores Huerta had the audacity to tell the truth.[/quote]
I did some checking into AZ public education last month. They are very low on the list of the 50 States. That seems like a good reason to focus on the core four.
I don’t know. Whose authority is the school board under? The State I would think.
I don’t know. Whose authority is the school board under? The State I would think.[/quote]
Same for firefighters and garbage collectors, but you don’t see the legislators rushing into burning buildings or picking up the trash.
State lawmakers generally don’t determine school curriculums – it’s generally outside the scope of their responsibilities and qualifications. Instead, that task ordinarily goes to members of the School Board, who were assigned their positions, because they were deemed qualified to make such determinations.
So, I still wonder why the state lawmakers felt such a compelling need to step outside the box of their regular duties, push aside matters they should be working on, and step on the toes of the School Board, in order to pass this law that was so urgently needed.
Have they explained the compelling need?
[quote=“Mother Theresa”]So, I still wonder why the state lawmakers felt such a compelling need to step outside the box of their regular duties, push aside matters they should be working on, and step on the toes of the School Board, in order to pass this law that was so urgently needed.
Have they explained the compelling need?[/quote]
I thought Republicans were opposed to big government being involved in local affairs.
Focus on them to the exclusion of everything else?
Students need a well-rounded education. In any case, most ethnic studies courses I’ve seen offered in high schools are electives.
I don’t know. Whose authority is the school board under? The State I would think.[/quote]
Same for firefighters and garbage collectors, but you don’t see the legislators rushing into burning buildings or picking up the trash.
Have they explained the compelling need?[/quote]
I’m pretty sure State governments set the rules for both of your examples.
Compelling need? I don’t know. From the cursory glance I’ve had, the appallingly low test scores might imply that the curriculum needs tweaking.
AZ is the fiftieth “smartest State”:
morganquitno.com/edrank.htm
Chris wrote:
[quote]
Focus on them to the exclusion of everything else?
Students need a well-rounded education. In any case, most ethnic studies courses I’ve seen offered in high schools are electives.[/quote]
Chris, please read up on the thing before spouting off what you think you know. What do you actually KNOW for a fact about the curriculum of AZ schools? You mention High School electives. OK. Then why is this law aimed at primary and secondary classrooms, in addition to HS?
Furthermore, excluding “ethnic” classes does not mean they’re excluding “everything else.” For one, the class in question would have to exceed the restrictions set forth in the law…which you have already decided is not possible. 
Where in the world did you get that idea? Are you confused that that aspect of Republicanism has changed?
Arizona GOP Gov. Jan Brewer has signed a law banning the state’s schools from teaching ethnic studies classes.
Brewer signed the bill Tuesday that targets Chicano studies programs currently being taught in Tucson schools.
[quote]
Proponents of the bill argue that the classes are designed only for students of a particular race and promote ethnic solidarity over community integration.
“Public school pupils should be taught to treat and value each other as individuals and not be taught to resent or hate other races or classes of people,” the text of the bill reads.
The law prohibits the teaching of any classes that promote “the overthrow of the United States government,” “resentment toward a race or class of people,” “are designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group” or “advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individuals.”
Neither the governor nor the bill’s supporters have identified examples where a Chicano studies class has advocated the “overthrow” of the federal government, and the bill’s opponents in the state have expressed outrage over what they see as a law that unfairly targets Hispanics.[/quote]
politico.com/news/stories/0510/37131.html[quote]
State Schools Superintendent Tom Horne told CNN’s “American Morning” on Thursday that the legislation is “designed to get schools to teach kids to treat each other as individuals and not on the basis of what race they were born into.”
Horne said he believes that the “fundamental American value is that we are individuals” and “not exemplars of the race we happen to be born into. What’s important is what we know, what we can do, what is our character.”
The superintendent has been targeting an ethnic studies curriculum in Tucson that he says “divided the kids into different races” – African studies for African-Americans, “Raza” studies for Latino youths and Asian studies for Asians.
"In the Raza studies, they were teaching kids that the United States is oppressive, they were making them angry. They used a Marxist book, the ‘Pedagogy of the Oppressed,’ " he said.
Signed into law on Tuesday, the new legislation forbids classes “designed primarily for pupils of a particular ethnic group” that advocate “the overthrow of the United States government” or “resentment toward a race or class of people.” It also forbids classes that “advocate ethnic solidarity” instead of treating pupils as individuals.[/quote]
edition.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/05 … index.html
[quote]
State schools chief Tom Horne, a Republican running for attorney general, says the district’s ethnic studies program promotes “ethnic chauvinism” and racial resentment toward whites.[/quote]
thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/0 … s-classes/[quote]
Under the law signed on Tuesday, any school district that offers classes designed primarily for students of particular ethnic groups, advocate ethnic solidarity or promote resentment of a race or a class of people would risk losing 10 percent of its state financing. [/quote]
So, the schools doesn’t HAVE to cancel the class.
nytimes.com/2010/05/14/educa … izona.html
[quote]
The new law, which takes effect at the end of the year, is a victory for Tom Horne, the state superintendent of public instruction, who has fought for years to end Tucson’s ethnic studies programs, which he believes teach students to feel oppressed and resent whites.
“The most offensive thing to me, fundamentally, is dividing kids by race,” Mr. Horne said.
“They are teaching a radical ideology in Raza, including that Arizona and other states were stolen from Mexico and should be given back,” he continued, referring to the Mexican-American studies classes. “My point of view is that these kids’ parents and grandparents came, mostly legally, because this is the land of opportunity, and we should teach them that if they work hard, they can accomplish anything.”
Mr. Horne, a Republican who is running for state attorney general, said he also objected to the textbook “Pedagogy of the Oppressed” by Paulo Freire.
The schools in Tucson, where about 56 percent of the students are Hispanic, offer Mexican-American studies classes in history and literature and African-American literature classes. Although the classes are open to all students, most of those who enroll are members of the ethnic or racial group being discussed.
In June 2007, in an open letter to the residents of Tucson, Mr. Horne said, “The evidence is overwhelming that ethnic studies in the Tucson Unified School District teaches a kind of destructive ethnic chauvinism that the citizens of Tucson should no longer tolerate.”
In that letter, he said he believed that students were learning hostility from La Raza teachers, citing an incident in which students at the Tucson High Magnet School walked out on a speech by his deputy, a Republican Latina, who was trying to refute an earlier speaker who had told the student body that Republicans hate Latinos. [/quote]
nytimes.com/2010/05/14/educa … izona.html
Well, there ya go. Compelling enough for them I guess.
Hmmm…this may just be the compelling reason:[quote]
Pedagogy of the Oppressed is the most widely known of educator Paulo Freire’s works. It was first published in Portuguese in 1968 as Pedagogia do oprimido and the first English translation was published in 1970. The book examines the struggle for justice and equity within the educational system and proposes a new pedagogy.
Dedicated to what is called “the oppressed,” Freire includes a detailed Marxist class analysis in his exploration of the relationship between the colonizer and the colonized. From his own experience helping Brazilian adults to read and write, the book remains popular among educators in developing countries. According to Donaldo Macedo, a former colleague of Freire and University of Massachusetts professor, Pedagogy of the Oppressed is a revolutionary text, and people in totalitarian states risk punishment reading it. The book has sold over 750 000 copies worldwide and is one of the foundations of critical pedagogy.[/quote]
[quote]
The first chapter explores how oppression has been justified and how it is overcome through a mutual process between the “oppressor” and the “oppressed”. Examining how the balance of power between the colonizer and the colonized remains relatively stable, Freire admits that the powerless in society can be frightened of freedom. He writes, “Freedom is acquired by conquest, not by gift. It must be pursued constantly and responsibly. Freedom is not an ideal located outside of man; nor is it an idea which becomes myth. It is rather the indispensable condition for the quest for human completion.” (47) According to Freire, freedom will be the result of praxis–informed action–when a balance between theory and practice is achieved.
The second chapter examines the “banking” approach to education – a metaphor used by Freire that suggests students are considered empty bank accounts that should remain open to deposits made by the teacher. Freire rejects the “banking” approach, claiming it results in the dehumanization of both the students and the teachers. In addition, he argues the banking approach stimulates oppressive attitudes and practices in society. Instead, Freire advocates for a more world-mediated, mutual approach to education that considers people incomplete. According to Freire, this “authentic” approach to education must allow people to be aware of their incompleteness and strive to be more fully human. This attempt to use education as a means of consciously shaping the person and the society is called conscientization, a term first coined by Freire in this book.
The third chapter developed the use of the term limit-situation with regards to dimensions of human praxis. This is in line with the Alvaro Viera Pinto’s use of the word/idea in his “Consciencia Realidad Nacional” which Freire contends is “using the concept without the pessimistic character originally found in Jaspers”(Note 15, Chapter 3) in reference to Karl Jaspers’s notion of ‘Grenzsituationen’.
The last chapter proposes dialogics as an instrument to free the colonized, through the use of cooperation, unity, organization and cultural synthesis (overcoming problems in society to liberate human beings). This is in contrast to antidialogics which use conquest, manipulation, cultural invasion, and the concept of divide and rule. Freire suggests that populist dialogue is a necessity to revolution; that impeding dialogue dehumanizes and supports the status quo. This is but one example of the dichotomies Freire identifies in the book. Others include the student-teacher dichotomy and the colonizer-colonized dichotomy.[/quote]
Heavy duty. High School kids, who rank LAST in the USA need to read this? Can they even comprehend it?
Has anyone read/heard of this book?