So do sleeping pills.
[quote=“piwackit”]I need to fly back to Canada this June with a one year old and a two year old all my myself. Am I looking forward to it? Nope. Am I worried sick about how other passengers will react? Yes, but what other choice is there? I cannot fly out my whole damn family and they are dying to see the kids ( they’ve never even met the youngest yet)
I plan to bring a big ass bag full of little toys, snacks, crayons, stickers and the like and hope just to surive the flight with as little trauma as possible to the kids, myself or the other passengers.[/quote]
It’ll be alright. I played with mine at the kids lounge at CKS before we got on. Then I gave her a bottle as we were taking off. That’s supposed to help them with the air pressure. Then she went to sleep, and I thought, “That was easy.” Until she woke up. She caught some kind of stomache virus on the plane. And when I got to my brothers house, she passed it on to everyone else. We had a lot of fun and everyone got to see her and it was worth every minute.
[quote=“Elegua”]I went to one place in NYC where the Maitre’d told me one peep from the kids and we were out of there.[/quote]I wish the stewardesses would be so quick to eject noisy families from planes.
“Here are your parachutes. Please mind your step while exiting the plane. Have a nice day and thank you for flying blah blah blah.”
j/k of course.
Congratulations on the great viz parenting btw. I wish the other 99.9% of the population were as caring.
It really is the responsiblity of the parents to keep the kids quiet.
Sometimes, though, it doesn’t work. If it gets bad enough, good parents just take the kid out of the restaurant or movie theater. I always did when mine were little and they couldn’t calm down.
[quote=“Tomas”]It really is the responsiblity of the parents to keep the kids quiet.
Sometimes, though, it doesn’t work. If it gets bad enough, good parents just take the kid out of the restaurant or movie theater. I always did when mine were little and they couldn’t calm down.[/quote]
That’s what we do. Mine are real good anyway, not to brag. Saturday, we went to Kyomomoyama and the little guy was already asleep. So not problem. He just laid on the bench (padded) while we ate. Gail had the kids tempura meal and what she didn’t eat, we took out for the little guy who ate his down in FNAC. And he cried until I bought the ABC book, but it was only 99NT anyway. The point of this post is that I just wanted to type Kyomomoyama once or twice.
Wow. Some interesting responces.
OK, so maybe I’m being a little over the top. But I do firmly believe that kids below the age of 2 and a half should not be allowed to fly because these kids are still firmly in the screaming bracket.
I pay for a seat. In uncomfortable circumstances I want to be made as comfortable as possible. I want to be able to listen to the inflight entertainment with out being able to hear high pitched-screaming over the commentary. Some people want to sleep. Some are businesspeople trying to get some last minute work done. People who can’t sleep would most likely want some peace and quiet. Some people are scared of flying and can do without the added discomfort of a child screaming over Russia all the way to Schipol.
Another damn fine reason not to allow kids on aircraft. Kids also get bored; some parents let them run around causing, if not a bloody annoyance, then a safety hazard.
Me neither. But I never noticed screaming kids on a television advert for Cathay Pacific either.
Which brings me to resaurants. I pay good money to receive service, nice food and a pleasant environment to enjoy my food in. Two noisy kids is not going to further my pleasurement at the establishment.
When I am in a restaurant I try my best not to inconvenience or annoy other people. The same on a plane. I once flew window seat from Frankfurt to Bang Kok without taking a piss because the person next to me was sleeping and I didn’t want to wake her up.
Parents have an obligation not to annoy other passengers via use of their kids. If the family so desperately wants to see ugly offspring then they can come over to wherever the parents are, or the parents can go back to the original country and have the sprogs.
Neck a neck on the scores, btw.
Talk about generalisations, my four year old daughter has been flying long haul on average twice a year since she was three months old, as well as several short haul flights, and in all that time has only cried twice, both times during the descent as the pilot lost altitude to quickly, each time she cried for approx 15 - 20 mins.
[quote]When I am in a restaurant I try my best not to inconvenience or annoy other people. The same on a plane. I once flew window seat from Frankfurt to Bang Kok without taking a piss because the person next to me was sleeping and I didn’t want to wake her up.
[/quote]
Better man than I am, Gunga Din… were your eyes yellow when you landed?
Last time I went to Chili’s they gave us crayons and paper for the kids. Outback did too. I think that was real nice. We didn’t even ask.
Well, if you want to ban children from being on a plane, then we should ban adults too. They can be VERY noisy… Like when I flew from amsterdam to taipei these 3 grown men were talking so loud that they woke up my son (2 months old at the time) more than 4 times! :fume: And on another flight, the person next to me snored (sp) SO loud that I couldn’t hear the movie in the headset.
If you want to ban children from restaurants, we should ban adults too… I think we (grown ups) are much MUCH more noisy than children!
I’ve wanted to smack more adults here in Taiwan then children for being noisy, ever hear them talking in their cell-phone 
anways, if I couldn’t take my son with me, he wouldn’t be able to see his father - so I don’t really care, that some people don’t like the “screaming”. That said, I do try to entertain my son, so he WONT cry…so much…
-DM, you suggested a speciel area for the kids. Fine by me! In Denmark we have a long-distance train where one wagon is for parents travelling with children. The children can play with each other, have fun and not bother the other passengers.
You had luck, last time I was flying from here to Amsterdam I had a slovenijan folk music and dance group on the plane. At least 40 people screaming around to each other, drinking lots of vodka, looking and smelling like russian bears and I was right in the middle of it.
Can you imagine how I enjoyed that flight? Oh, and I am not sure if there were any kids on that flight, I simply was not able to hear them in this noise.
My thing is breastfeeding–I don’t care if it is natural or whatever, get a window seat for a little privacy.
Babies and children do not belong in business/first, unless they’ve been drugged or their parents are absolutely certain they can be quiet.
You know, I have lost it before on airplanes and yelled at a couple of kids, but on a flight from Vancouver this old man across the aisle kept farting so badly I’ll take screaming kids over that anytime.
The last time I flew out of Amsterdam, I… uh… wait man… I can’t remember like it was… like… cool.
Dangermouse
You can avoid taking such an extreme position. Social barriers exist just because of things like unruly kids. Sophisticated people know to which venues they may bring their kids. They and their henchmen are even enlightened enough to keep their kids away from places where they will not be welcomed and know how to keep the crass away. People who care not to see kids must learn how to avoid those places where brats go, but they themselves must be deserving of such privilege.
Less advantaged people may not have the resources to teach their children well, but some remain courteous and rise above their station. Even a pauper can raise wonderfully non-hyper active children and may find ways to negotiate around the high cost of exclusive places. They may have to kiss some asses, etc.
As for airplanes… that is difficult as people of all walks of life take them. Perhaps an airline could do a trial run “families” seating area. That may prove to be prohibitively expensive and unpopular. I do not fly often, but is it not currently allowable to request seating away from children, when making reservations?
My advise to you Dangermouse is be a realist and a strategist in this increasingly densely populated world to avoid nasty kids.
I can’t stress enough the unfortunate results of overpopulation on the globe. It is the one and only factor that may be tied to a vast majority of human suffering.
I therefore vote “No” but stress the reason is should so many kids be allowed to be born? Has humanity broken the critical mass where human rights take start to take a back seat to population control measures?
I say, solemnly “Yes.”
I could, but it wouldn’t invoke much discussion.
On the contrary, I think most children from less advantaged backgrounds are far more understanding, curteous and appreciative than children from rich, well off backgrounds who lead self centred and sheltered lives.
I would say the average paupers’ children are not hyperactive.
Now this is a wonderful idea - and they already seem to be placing kids in a small area of the aircraft - usually the area around me.
My last BA flight from London to here consisted of 4 families of about two children each, all crying and within slapping distance from me.
But I think turfing the upper class snobs out of First and making them go into the cargo bay is a good idea. That way the children can have their own creche which is sealed off from the rest of the plane. I think this is a good idea:
Any area on a plane where the kids do not cause a nusiance would be a good idea, but all airlines do is try to cut costs so I don’t think that this is a viable option.
[quote=“quirky”]My advise to you Dangermouse is be a realist and a strategist in this increasingly densely populated world to avoid nasty kids.
[/quote]
The more I try, the more I seem to come into contact with them, believe me.
I really don’t like kids that much. I mean they are OK from a distance like a Rhino, but I don’t like to get close to them
[quote=“quirky”]I therefore vote “No” but stress the reason is should so many kids be allowed to be born? Has humanity broken the critical mass where human rights take start to take a back seat to population control measures?
I say, solemnly “Yes.”[/quote]
Good point.
as you say air travel is uncomfortable circumstances and that is precisely because you are in close proximity to other people with no way to avoid them in the case of noise or myriad other possible annoyances. that is the reality of air travel on a cramped plane. airlines are not in the business of providing peace and quiet. your desire for some is understandable but clearly the desire of parents to transport their children takes precedence. airlines are in the business of transporting people. presumably airlines could offer “adults only” service, to my knowledge such a service has never taken hold or even been offered. it would undoubtedly be a money-losing proposition. there is no overriding safety concern i can see that would justify the extra cost.
put another way, how much extra would you be willing to pay for a 2 and a half year old and under free flight? i don’t think the revenue loss to the airlines would be insignificant and it would wind up being passed on to consumers.
Hey everyone, just going back to the OP, which was obviously designed to inflame, we have covered planes and restaurants and touched very lightly on Trains (someone said that Scandinavian trains have a kids carriage) but nonone has touched on the all kids in bed by 17:30 comment.
My father was very strict about this (not 17:30) and wanted his kids in bed by the time he came home, usually around 7pm. He would come in and kiss us goodnight and we were allowed to read (not watch TV) until we went to sleep. Now admittedly by the time I was 21 this all got a bit tiresome but what time do you parents put your small children down? My boss in HK lets his stay up in front of the TV until they fall asleep, which I am convinced cannot be good for them. I have also already commented on small children in restaurants at midnight which seems to be an Asian norm.
Going back to the plane thing, I think i will drop Dickie Branson a line and see whether he can spin a family section on any of his long haul flights. It seems that both families and non-child producing adults would all appreciate the respite.
Maybe someone, or a group of people, should sue an airline for misleading advertising. 
You hardly ever see any kids in airline ads, and the rare one you do see is displaying model behaviour. It’s a far cry from the reality.
As to the decreasing youth population tied into supporting an ever-growing grey sector: Why would you sentence your kids to this? They’re going to work harder than you did, earn less in real terms, and pay far more tax to support a welfare system doomed to collapse. Not the sort of future I’d condemn anyone to.
Bedtime: I don’t know about your experiences, but in my neighborhood the kids basically go to bed when the parents do. Until then they are bouncing off the walls having been fed on chocolate, coke and ultraviolence all day. Oh well, soon enough they’ll be in a classroom 18 hours a day and they won’t have the energy to make that kind of noise anymore. Unfortunately, there will be more to take their place at the noise machine.
[quote=“Edgar Allen”]My father was very strict about this (not 17:30) and wanted his kids in bed by the time he came home, usually around 7pm. He would come in and kiss us goodnight and we were allowed to read (not watch TV) until we went to sleep. Now admittedly by the time I was 21 this all got a bit tiresome but what time do you parents put your small children down? My boss in HK lets his stay up in front of the TV until they fall asleep, which I am convinced cannot be good for them. I have also already commented on small children in restaurants at midnight which seems to be an Asian norm.
[/quote]
When I was growing up, the evening news were at 7.30, before that there was a cartoon at 7.15. All kids got to watch this cartoon and had to be in bed before the news. That was the law.
[quote=“redwagon”]Maybe someone, or a group of people, should sue an airline for misleading advertising. You hardly ever see any kids in airline ads, and the rare one you do see is displaying model behaviour. It’s a far cry from the reality.
As to the decreasing youth population tied into supporting an ever-growing grey sector: Why would you sentence your kids to this? They’re going to work harder than you did, earn less in real terms, and pay far more tax to support a welfare system doomed to collapse. Not the sort of future I’d condemn anyone to.
Bedtime: I don’t know about your experiences, but in my neighborhood the kids basically go to bed when the parents do. Until then they are bouncing off the walls having been fed on chocolate, coke and ultraviolence all day. Oh well, soon enough they’ll be in a classroom 18 hours a day and they won’t have the energy to make that kind of noise anymore. Unfortunately, there will be more to take their place at the noise machine.[/quote]
I wrote that mostly as a response to Quirky. I do see some redeeming values in this world. It is still an ‘interesting’ place to be. I also think that there are some real ways to solve the greying population issues that won’t break the bank so-to-speak. Economies aren’t just about producing more widgets each year. Maybe I’m selfish too - I like having them around.
Bedtime in my house is 8:00pm (lights out). I do that so that I can see them for at least an hour before they go to bed and we can do some reading or have a discussion about something. Yesterday was Valentines Day which led to how that was linked to Lupercalia, and how the early church replaced the Roman pantheon with thier own saints…etc… They keep asking why - you keep havin to peel the onion.
Somedays however, I’m right there with DM. I want to sit on the couch, drink a beer, watch something totally inappropriate for kids and not get asked “why” every 5 min. 