Beat up as a child and you just don't care?

Taiwan Parenting
41

Perhaps not ownership of the child, but of the responsibility.

My interest really is just the curiosity that we are born with an ability to handle violence. What you can teach your children about how to handle that ability is important? In fact, I’d say it is close to the top of the pile of your responsibilities. I also think it’s more the rule than the exception that most people learn first hand about being the recipient of violence from their parents or siblings (in which case they are also dishing it out).

Take sport as an example. Sports like rugby, aussie rules, gridiron, boxing, cage fighting …are essentially stylized violence. We participate in them for the violence and our understanding of ourselves in that environment. It’s violence as entertainment.To help with that understanding, we develop codes of behavior that are celebrated to ensure we get along after the game. It takes something to do, a litany of emotions that you need to be in control of. That is one reason why we like sport so much and credit it with developing good character. When you play sport good character is the priority. It’s not winning or losing but how you play the game. The real loser is the one who cannot handle the violence after the game. Those instincts exist within us but unless they are triggered, nurtured, and properly instructed they either wither and die or become poison fruit.

If you cannot handle the violence you perpetuate it – not the other way round. Violence is the reality; learning how to be at ease with it a priority. That’s why I say avoiding violence tends to beget violence.

42

[quote=“Fox”]Perhaps not ownership of the child, but of the responsibility.

My interest really is just the curiosity that we are born with an ability to handle violence. What you can teach your children about how to handle that ability is important? In fact, I’d say it is close to the top of the pile of your responsibilities. I also think it’s more the rule than the exception that most people learn first hand about being the recipient of violence from their parents or siblings (in which case they are also dishing it out).

Take sport as an example. Sports like rugby, aussie rules, gridiron, boxing, cage fighting …are essentially stylized violence. We participate in them for the violence and our understanding of ourselves in that environment. It’s violence as entertainment.To help with that understanding, we develop codes of behavior that are celebrated to ensure we get along after the game. It takes something to do, a litany of emotions that you need to be in control of. That is one reason why we like sport so much and credit it with developing good character. When you play sport good character is the priority. It’s not winning or losing but how you play the game. The real loser is the one who cannot handle the violence after the game. Those instincts exist within us but unless they are triggered, nurtured, and properly instructed they either wither and die or become poison fruit.

If you cannot handle the violence you perpetuate it – not the other way round. Violence is the reality; learning how to be at ease with it a priority. That’s why I say avoiding violence tends to beget violence.[/quote]

I learned boxing at eight years of age at boarding school. Along with fencing and rugby. Boxing was the most useful activity I ever learnt. It allowed me to handle myself all throughout my adult life. About ten years ago I met the school master who taught it (he was about 70 when I met him). I thanked him for that and he said that I was not the first. Boxing is now banned at schools for kids of that age as it is deemed unsuitable with present times (no not just for safety reasons). Later in life i practiced various martial arts, wing chun, MMA etc but nothing was as useful as learning boxing at such a young age. We used to give each other black eyes, bloody noses you name it and we were only aged between 8-12. It made us tough in mind.
That teacher would also sometimes give us a smack on the butt with the heavy gym rope if we had bad behaviour and damn that hurt!!!. However everyone totally respected that master (teacher) and any old school friends I have met since all speak fondly of him. He was a tough rough no nonsense sport’s teacher that sometiems gave us a smack but we all respected and totally admired him. Our opinions have not changed with time.

43

Boxing was also taught at my school when I was a kid. Though only in my first year of high school and was being phased out so it was an elective thing. To be honest, I was kind of glad. I liked getting punched in the head less than I liked punching people in the head, but I could still see the value in it. I think that value was greater than my personal dislike of copping a punch – profoundly more valuable.

44

I tend to agree with everybody. :blush:

Overall, I think the world is a better place without violence. I think when issues are resolved without the use of force, it’s usually better. I very much respect the attitude of the New Zealand Police Force: to use as little force as possible. They have batons and tasers, they have access to guns, they can call on SWAT-style teams or the army if need be, but they prefer to use just words, force of personality and the respect of the uniform. They don’t haul people out of cars and slam them, spread them, search them just because they made a driving infraction. Once I was talking to an ex-cop and I did something, I forget what, went to push him or something, and he took my hand and put it in the mildest of Aikido wrist locks. Very much like being “mouthed” by a dog - “I’m not biting, and I don’t want to bite you, but this is the line and don’t push it.”

I’m aware that society is getting more violent and more intolerant in New Zealand and England, and I presume in other countries too. My belief is that this is a result of the banning of corporal punishment, the banning of physical discipline at home, the increasing awareness of “rights” of children, the disempowerment of teachers and parents. Thirty years ago a cop would handle some hooligan teenagers by giving them a talking to, a clip round the ear and a boot up the backside and send them home to their parents (who would probably do the same again). Nowadays a student can tell a teacher to “Fuck off, and there’s nothing you can do about it. I know my rights.”

I know that corporal punishment can be and was overused, and used for the wrong reasons. It was a common resort by lazy or incompetant teachers and lazy parents. Some sadistic, alcoholic and/or violent people abused their power. It was banned for very good reasons. However - I think a lot of the societal problems of youth violence today would be reduced by far if the youths were brought up in an environment of respect and consequences, but the underlying knowledge that if they buck the system hard enough or do something bad enough, someone, somewhere, down the line there’s a guy with a big stick.

It also underlines the authority of the teacher and the parent, and makes their jobs MUCh easier. Like the dog mouthing, “Back off or I’ll bite”, he needs teeth to be able to do that. The police have teeth, and they have the ability to choose not to use it. Their “softly softly” approach works so well because they have the teeth to back it up.

So my thoughts on raising my child are that there will be a limited amount of physical discipline. It will be rare, and the main discipline methods will be “time out” or grounding or removal of priviliges or desired things, but it will be there.

I’ll also be teaching to deal with violence - and at this point I’m using the term very broadly. Right now I’m teaching him to breakfall. He’s two. I learnt to breakfall and roll when I was doing judo, at age 8 or something. The only time I ever used it in real life was coming off my bike - and right then and there I decided that was a damn good skill to have. I read somewhere “For many children today, the first time they have any physical consequence to their actions is when they get behind the wheel of a car.” That’s not going to be my child.

Later I’ll be teaching him what I know of martial arts and self defence, as the world is becoming increasingly violent. He’ll also be taught how not to use violence. One of the martial arts classes he’ll be going to will be Aikido - the art of using as little violence as possible.

I’ll leave you with a thought: has anyone considered asking the child about corporal punishment? “You haven’t done your homework for the last two weeks. This is lazy, and wrong, and you know it. You need to be punished. Now do you want to spend three hours picking up all the garbage on the school grounds or have the strap and get it over with?”
I was talking about corporal punishment with some students the other day. They all condemmed it. I pointed out that teachers needed to assert authority, and would they prefer the cane or more homework? They thought about it, and half the class decided they’d rather have the cane.

45

I think corporal punishment is fine if it’s done in a manner that teaches the child right from wrong and sets a pattern for expected behavior. The unstructured 1960s-influenced child psychology Dr. Spock teachings pushed by so many left-wing educationalists and child care professionals are absolute rubbish and responsible for breeding a generation of self-absorbed spoiled brats that have no grasp of reality. Reading, writing, arithmetic, and teaching them practical life lessons and business lessons is what is needed, but good luck trying to find such guidance in a world dominated by similarly absorbed union left teachers and careerist parents.

Recent studies in the US show that teacher salaries have increased 90 percent in the last few decades while test scores have not increased at all. That’s the real legacy of this New Left teaching generation. Overpaid and way way undereffectve.

While my parents never laid a finger on me, I certainly could have used more old fashioned warnings/corporal punishment. They thought everything I did was fanstastic and urged unstructured creativity. Once, when I was attending private school in Australia, they came to the rescue when I was supposed to be caned for fighting after a cricket match. :laughing: I called them from a pay phone and told them what was going to happen and told them to save me from these Queensland thugs. They rushed over and gave admin a whole lotta shit. I stood in the background and mentioned to annoyed teachers that such violent behavour was expected from the descendents of Botany Bay convicts, but us British Canadians were a breed above the local Aussies. :smiley: I was a troublemaker from an early age and loved riling up people and watching them fight. In some cases, I’d have to participate and I was more than happy to do so. In retrospect, I should have been caned quite a few times for my actions. I think I’ll return to more traditional values when rearing my own blood.

46

[quote=“Mother Theresa”]Aw, shucks, thanks sandy. :blush: Big sloppy wet kiss for you at the next happy hour (not from me, from irishstu). I’m not a perfect parent (I made that post last night on my iPhone when I was supposed to be paying attention during my daughter’s piano class), but I try my best. I know we all try our best. And I wasn’t being critical of others at all. I wasn’t saying those who beat their kids are bad people or bad parents. In fact, I expressly stated my belief that the fact some hit their kids doesn’t necessarily make them bad people.

BUT, the OP asked for opinions. The first few people concurred with his apparent opinion that “I got beaten all the time as a kid and it didn’t hurt me, so I see no harm done.” My feelings were very different. At first I thought I would keep my mouth shut and not disrupt the sequential concurrences by stating a differing view. But then I stuck my toes in the water with a single sentence and the OP asked for elaboration. So, what the hell, I stated my view, which is pretty much the primary purpose of this forum.

I wasn’t judging or condemning others; just stating MY belief that it’s wrong to hit your kids, it is harmful, it should be possible to raise them well without hitting them, and that’s why I’m trying to do that with my child.

Actually, I think there’s some truth to smithsg’s comment about hitting being related to ownership. At least it connotes superiority. What gives me the right to hit my child? She’s a human being the same as me, the same as my wife, the same as my neighbor. I wouldn’t hit my wife or my neighbor; why should I have any more right to hit her? I know I CAN hit her, because I’m bigger and more powerful. And I CAN justify it that I’m her parent and it’s my duty to raise her properly and discipline her when needed (“for her own good” – she may not see it now, but some day she will). But I don’t see it that way. I don’t feel I have a right to hit her. To do so would merely be a loss of control and abuse of power on my part.

In fact, i don’t need to hit her, because she’s just a small child, who looks up to and respects and emulates me and constantly wants to please me, so if I hit her I’m sure she would cry, not from physical pain so much as from shock and disappointment that her father could be so cruel, so horrible, could be such a terrible man.

As I said, I’m not judging anyone else; just telling how I feel about my relationship with my daughter.

I don’t feel superior to her at all. I feel like we’re buddies, going through life’s experiences together (except that so many things are new for her, but I’ve done them before and already have knowledge and experience about them). As her buddy with more experience, I will lead her and guide her and tell her firmly when she’s wrong, and I know she will strive hard to follow my wishes because she wants to please me. But I have no more right to hit her than I do to hit my wife. And, as I’ve said, I strongly believe I don’t need to hit her, because she’s already learning to be a good, well-behaved person just fine without beatings – so I would hate to disrupt that good positive senior buddy-junior buddy relationship by introducing terror tactics and making her fear me.

That’s MY beliefs and MY experience. Others are entitled to have their own beliefs and experiences.[/quote]
Great post, MT!
:notworthy:

[quote=“fenlander”] learned boxing at eight years of age at boarding school. Along with fencing and rugby. Boxing was the most useful activity I ever learnt. It allowed me to handle myself all throughout my adult life. About ten years ago I met the school master who taught it (he was about 70 when I met him). I thanked him for that and he said that I was not the first. Boxing is now banned at schools for kids of that age as it is deemed unsuitable with present times (no not just for safety reasons). Later in life i practiced various martial arts, wing chun, MMA etc but nothing was as useful as learning boxing at such a young age. We used to give each other black eyes, bloody noses you name it and we were only aged between 8-12. It made us tough in mind.
That teacher would also sometimes give us a smack on the butt with the heavy gym rope if we had bad behaviour and damn that hurt!!!. However everyone totally respected that master (teacher) and any old school friends I have met since all speak fondly of him. He was a tough rough no nonsense sport’s teacher that sometiems gave us a smack but we all respected and totally admired him. Our opinions have not changed with time.[/quote]
My experience of boarding school and yours would seem to be eerily familiar. :woodstock: Me thinks I need to get my son into boxing!

47

Thanks for that chewy. That explains a lot. BTW the average executive bankers pay has increased a little more than 90% over the past few decades and they lost trillions.

48

No we’re not. It is an acquired skill, some learn early and some don’t.

49

[quote=“TheGingerMan”]

[quote=“fenlander”] learned boxing at eight years of age at boarding school. Along with fencing and rugby. Boxing was the most useful activity I ever learnt. It allowed me to handle myself all throughout my adult life. About ten years ago I met the school master who taught it (he was about 70 when I met him). I thanked him for that and he said that I was not the first. Boxing is now banned at schools for kids of that age as it is deemed unsuitable with present times (no not just for safety reasons). Later in life i practiced various martial arts, wing chun, MMA etc but nothing was as useful as learning boxing at such a young age. We used to give each other black eyes, bloody noses you name it and we were only aged between 8-12. It made us tough in mind.
That teacher would also sometimes give us a smack on the butt with the heavy gym rope if we had bad behaviour and damn that hurt!!!. However everyone totally respected that master (teacher) and any old school friends I have met since all speak fondly of him. He was a tough rough no nonsense sport’s teacher that sometiems gave us a smack but we all respected and totally admired him. Our opinions have not changed with time.[/quote]
My experience of boarding school and yours would seem to be eerily familiar. :woodstock: Me thinks I need to get my son into boxing![/quote]

yes do it. Boxing first martial arts later if he wants to do so. Boxing gives one an ability to take stikes and pain both mentally and physically. You will find that even most multiple black belts will crumble or turn their faces away in pain and shock after recieving just one punch to the nose. A boxer will feel it to be mildy uncomfortable and will be launching an almost immediate counter strike instead of holding his nose and wondering what the hell just happened. It is also an extremely fast no nonsense approach to self defense. Many will suggest other more sophisticated arts and they may or may not be useful but boxing is proven and time tested in real combat. You can’t go far wrong with boxing and wrestling! Maybe as he is in Taiwan San da could be a good alternative. But anyways it must have contact to achieve the goals I think you are wishing to attain in regards to the protection of your child.

Yeah get him into a few lessons if you are worried about brain damage then make sure he wears a helmet (although we never did in those days). He will be thankful to you one day. This American friend of mine hates his parents because they forbade him from doing any kind of violent sport. He really wanted to be a “boy” but was not allowed due to having very PC folks. I tell him about my upbringing and he says such thing like “I wish my parents had let me do that I was never allowed it was deemed unsuitable behaviour”.

We boys know the shit we have to endure at school and growing up. Communication is all great but when your kid meets knuckle draggers then communciation means sweet f all! And Daddy is not going to be there 24/7

50

No we’re not. It is an acquired skill, some learn early and some don’t.[/quote]

Well, I’m not so sure about that. I think we have an innate ability to cope with violence and the stress of violence; however, how we do so and reconcile violence in our lives is a product of our genes, culture, and exposure. Culture clearly is a major factor, take the level of street violence in Taiwan versus Australia, for example. That’s not to be dismissive of other forms of violence that occur in Taiwan. It is indicative though that as a parent you can influence the equation and as a society it can have a large impact on public welfare. I just don’t think you get there by avoidance but rather by engaging.

It’s the arbitrary decision of saying ‘no violence’ that I don’t like. It’s too simplistic and doesn’t seem to reflect reality very well. Plus who wouldn’t have loved to have seen a young chewycorns getting his just deserts. By his own admission, it would have been something we could have all relished and he would have been a better human-been for it. That is very very hard to argue against.

51

No we’re not. It is an acquired skill, some learn early and some don’t.[/quote]
Rubbish. Violence is ingrained in the animal psyche, of which we are surely part & parcel. Jesus Wept, even the act of giving birth is a violent, shocking event. Puny bags of mostly water that humans are, even we are part of the violent cycle. In our natural cave man element, violence is part of our soul. Perhaps some think we have risen above that, but it’s a sure as shite wishful thinking.

52

No we’re not. It is an acquired skill, some learn early and some don’t.[/quote]
Rubbish. Violence is ingrained in the animal psyche, of which we are surely part & parcel. Jesus Wept, even the act of giving birth is a violent, shocking event. Puny bags of mostly water that humans are, even we are part of the violent cycle. In our natural cave man element, violence is part of our soul. Perhaps some think we have risen above that, but it’s a sure as shite wishful thinking.[/quote]

Great post :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

I am going to save that and use it in the future. :thumbsup:

53

I’m interested, Divea. When your kid’s old enough to be at school and at the mercy of the schoolyard bullies, what do you plan to do? Are you going to teach him to stand up for himself or are you going to threaten to sue the school for his bloody nose, or what?
Your baby is NOT going to be tied to your apron strings for the rest of his life. In fact, I’ve seen photos. In a VERY few years, he’s going to be faced with real life, and mummy won’t always be there to save him. What then?
Make NO mistake. I firmly believe that you are a fantastic mom and that you are doing what you believe to be the right thing.
But you’re a woman. Your kid 'aint. He’s a man-in-the-making. Are you going to allow him to grow up with no concept of the IMMUTABLE FACT that people ARE going to hit him. They ARE going to try to cause him to be hurt. They ARE going to try to make him cry. And the ONLY way for him to deal with that will be to either hit back or forever be a pantywaist blubberer who EVERYBODY knows can simply be hit and hit and hit again. And NOTHING will happen, except – OOOOOOHHHHH!!! My mummy will come to school and THEN! Just you wait! She’ll deal with you nasty bullies.
But wait! You don’t DO violence! So what WILL you do? Stand there lecturing, while the kids snigger behind their hands, just waiting for you to leave so they can deal out their punishment to your kid, not only because he has no way of retaliating, but ALSO because he was a tattletale who went and told his mummy?
BIFF! BANG! OUCH! OOH!
Nah! YOUR way is WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

54

I don’t get it. Several people have made similar comments and I have no idea what it’s got to do with the subject of this thread, which I thought was about parents beating their kids.

Like those who spoke favorably of their childhood experiences with boxing, I got the same from wrestling. I did it for a number of years starting in 7th grade, got pretty damned good, and it came in handy in several scrapes. I recall one time in junior high when a kid “called me out” (that’s what we called it when you invited another kid to a fistfight in the hallway or outside the school), so we went out back and I kicked his ass and I still remember him wailing “not fair, you used wrestling.” :roflmao:

It’s true lots of or perhaps most kids will have to deal with violence from/with other kids at some point and it’s handy to know how to fight back. But a parent beating a child doesn’t teach that. It just batters the kid and the parent/child relationship. If a parent’s motivation for slapping his kid in the face or whipping him with a belt is to teach him to deal with violence, he’s not doing that. He’s only building resentment and tearing down love, respect and admiration. Instead, if one wants to help the kid to deal with violence, why not bring the kid up in an environment of good nutrition and excercise, so he/she will be strong and healthy, and train him in boxing, wrestling or martial arts at some point?

55

Beating, slapping, battering, whipping.
OBTUSITY! I say! OBTUSITY! Get thee BEHIND me!
You’re doing a divea, MT, and it 'aint pretty.
And how do you propose to train your kid to box without, like, you know. Hitting him?

I will never in my life, I hope to god almighty up above in the sky, beat, whip or batter my wee precious. But I WILL reserve a short sharp slap in my arsenal of tricks to keep the brat up to speed.
And THAT is what we’re talking about here, despite the best efforts of your good self and the equally scrumptious divea to sidetrack the conversation into the murky depths of depraved molestation in the name of discipline.
You and she don’t employ such means? Good for you both. But you, however, have already confessed to using the hated and despised time-out on your child. SHAME on you! MENTAL ANGUISH! PAIN! HUMILIATION! I should report you to the authorities, you monster!

56

[quote=“sandman”]Beating, slapping, battering, whipping.
OBTUSITY! I say! OBTUSITY! Get thee BEHIND me!
You’re doing a divea, MT, and it 'aint pretty.
And how do you propose to train your kid to box without, like, you know. Hitting him?[/quote]

You’re not proposing that the child should hit the parent back are you???

I would think there would be serious hell to pay if that happened. Holy shit, if a kid turned while being slapped and popped pop in the nose – after the shock wore off, I’d think the kid would then be seriously pummeled into submission. So what the hell would that teach him? Strike someone and you’ll suffer serious adverse consequences? That’s not teaching self-defense, it’s not teaching him how to hit back well, it’s just teaching pain. True, life’s full of pain, but a parent doesn’t need to pummel their kid to teach them that.

57

[quote=“Mother Theresa”][quote=“sandman”]Beating, slapping, battering, whipping.
OBTUSITY! I say! OBTUSITY! Get thee BEHIND me!
You’re doing a divea, MT, and it 'aint pretty.
And how do you propose to train your kid to box without, like, you know. Hitting him?[/quote]

You’re not proposing that the child should hit the parent back are you???

I would think there would be serious hell to pay if that happened. [/quote]
Well, I would hope not. What would YOU do? “here, kid! Here’s how to pop a guy in the kisser and bust that pansy’s lip! BOOM! Like that. Now you. HEY! You HIT me! Oh! Boo Hoo!”

Nah! You and Divea are spouting mealy-mouthed bullshit, as far as I’m concerned. My kid is only 18 months, but he knows “no!” If he persists in sticking his fingers into the electrical socket or into the bars on the fan in the face of “NO!” when he knows EXACTLY what the word means, then yeah, he gets a slap – a wee one, but a slap nonetheless – on the back of the hand. Enough to shock him into the reality that this 'aint a game, sugar, and that shit can kill ya. That’s all.
So call me a monster if you like. I’ll chuckle and thumb my nose at your ridiculousness.

58

[quote=“sandman”]I’m interested, Divea. When your kid’s old enough to be at school and at the mercy of the schoolyard bullies, what do you plan to do? Are you going to teach him to stand up for himself or are you going to threaten to sue the school for his bloody nose, or what?
Your baby is NOT going to be tied to your apron strings for the rest of his life. In fact, I’ve seen photos. In a VERY few years, he’s going to be faced with real life, and mummy won’t always be there to save him. What then?
Make NO mistake. I firmly believe that you are a fantastic mom and that you are doing what you believe to be the right thing.
But you’re a woman. Your kid 'aint. He’s a man-in-the-making. Are you going to allow him to grow up with no concept of the IMMUTABLE FACT that people ARE going to hit him. They ARE going to try to cause him to be hurt. They ARE going to try to make him cry. And the ONLY way for him to deal with that will be to either hit back or forever be a pantywaist blubberer who EVERYBODY knows can simply be hit and hit and hit again. And NOTHING will happen, except – OOOOOOHHHHH!!! My mummy will come to school and THEN! Just you wait! She’ll deal with you nasty bullies.
But wait! You don’t DO violence! So what WILL you do? Stand there lecturing, while the kids snigger behind their hands, just waiting for you to leave so they can deal out their punishment to your kid, not only because he has no way of retaliating, but ALSO because he was a tattletale who went and told his mummy?
BIFF! BANG! OUCH! OOH!
Nah! YOUR way is WRONG! WRONG! WRONG![/quote]

You’ve got a point. My dad was a bodybuilder, built like a brick shithouse. People were afraid to mess with him. He used to tell me to “be aggressive” when I played sport, but he never really taught me how to deal with bullies. I wish he had. Mom just told me to walk away. I got my ass kicked a few times before I figured out that there was no walking or running away from bullies if they were close enough to hit you. I learned to fight. I remember one bully in particular, a big, blonde-haired guy. He harassed me so often that I finally asked my dad what I should do. He told me to tell the kid to “blast off.” I did, and he just laughed in my face and the harassment got worse until I went toe to toe with him and held my own.

I grew up in middle-class America, but I had to fight in elementary school, junior high, and high school. I had a few scuffles at university. I don’t know what it was like for others, but we had to fight back or be subject to constant harassment and physical pain.

59

I was beaten at school. Cricket bats, canes, tennis racquets, whistle thongs, home-made apparati, etc. Didn’t bother me. As Sandman said, better a thrashing than detention, and it’s got a certain status to it. Wasn’t personal, like. Just military mentality.

On the other hand, my mother used to beat the shit out of me when I was a kid. My father never raised a hand, apart from once, when he slapped my mouth for back-chatting my Mum. Here’s an open fucking confession: I love my mother to death and I realize that she was coming from a place where she had been beaten as a kid and didn’t know any better. Bloody amateurs. I hold no grudges. However, that exposure to violence definitely scarred me. Perhaps because it was so close to home and was coming from the person that I loved the most in the world. There’s a sure correlation between the hidings I got as a kid and the monster that I became as an adult, smashing my way through all and sundry to make my (often irrelevant) point and to assert my “power” through violence. I have been in probably more acts of violent confrontation than the whole of the Flob put together. And I’ve acted like a total idiot in virtually all of the relationships I’ve had with women that loved me, and ultimately alienated them (not through violence per se, but through an emotional violence that ultimately alienated those whom I held most dear).
It has taken a damn serious soul-search to realize where that propensity came from: fearing the ones you hold most dear.

Sorry if I’m ranting, but this is a subject close to my heart. Don’t hit your kids. They will remember for the rest of their lives, and will always subconsciously carry it with them. There are better ways, dudes and dudettes.

There’s a difference between teaching your kid to stand up for him/herself and beating the shit out of them.

60

[quote=“Fox”][quote]here are always better ways involving shame, extra workloads, parental involvement, etc., but boarding schools used to enjoy the violent methods far too much.
[/quote]

Shame and boredom? That’s just cruel.[/quote]

What is the matter with making a child feel ashamed of what they’ve done so that they won’t do it again? I’m not talking about making them stand naked in traffic, I’m talking about teaching empathy and the ability to understand WHY they’re being scolded. The problem with many parents is that they just hit their kids and that’s it. They kid learns not to do that but never really understands why. Or they yell at their kids, but the gist is “I’m mad because you did this”, and the parent doesn’t teach them why what they’ve done is wrong. This is definitely the case in Taiwan, where children have no sense of empathy or sympathy for their peers whatsoever.
As for boredom, boredom is the time-tested “time out”. I think time outs" work because it really did allow me to sit and think about what I did and why I was in a time out. But I didn’t propose boredom. I’m guessing you’re referring to extra work. I think giving extra work for bad behavior isn’t as cruel as teaching the child that violence is an acceptable way to control someone else.