Why do I keep reading the title of this thread as “Canadians – would you go to war if you were naked?”
Have you seen the state of our armed forces?
As someone wrote, If called upon, I would hope to serve in an auxilliary position. I could be a cook, or a mechanic, or truck driver, or anything else that hopefully would not put me in a position to have to kill someone, or be killed.
I honestly don’t understand much about the wars that are going on right now. It all seems senseless and futile, and horrible. I try to imagine what it must be like to be some scared guy in a foxhole hoping to make it one more day, and I can’t.
The fact is, there are soldiers over there, following orders and doing their best for some ideal that I don’t understand. Maybe they don’t either. They at least deserve a bit of good will.
the whole thought of military service scares the bezeejus out of me, actually.
[quote=“cake”]My grandfather who fought in WW2. Told me it’s is all bullshit.
He said the government can stick his medals up their arses.
It’s got nothing to do with being ‘a man’ [/quote]
My grandfather said pretty much the same thing to me. He, and all his brothers, fought in WW2. They all became pacifists after. During the 1960s, when the govt was drafting Australians and sending them to Vietnam, my grandfather encouraged my uncle to draft dodge should he get called up - to the point where my grandfather was on the verge of taking a 2nd job to provide the support my uncle would need in hiding. My uncle was lucky, he didn’t get drafted.
Well, the Americans are sending soldiers to Iraq without body armor, and with insufficiently armored vehicles. I guess in a war, that’s pretty much naked.
[quote=“cfimages”]
My grandfather said pretty much the same thing to me. He, and all his brothers, fought in WW2. They all became pacifists after. During the 1960s, when the govt was drafting Australians and sending them to Vietnam, my grandfather encouraged my uncle to draft dodge should he get called up - to the point where my grandfather was on the verge of taking a 2nd job to provide the support my uncle would need in hiding. My uncle was lucky, he didn’t get drafted.[/quote]
It’s a damn shame all Australians didn’t become pacifists and refuse to fight in WWII, isn’t it? I’m sure all those Japanese gentlemen who were otherwise occupied in China, Singapore, Malaysia, Burma, the Philippines and Indonesia would have thrown up their arms in surprise and returned to Yokohama…suitably impressed, no doubt.
I’d rather fight than become a slave.
Some posters herein are already conditioned to be slaves 
[quote=“Shin-Gua”]I’d rather fight than become a slave.
Some posters herein are already conditioned to be slaves [/quote]
It seems they want all the rights and privileges of citizenship without any of the responsibilities that go with it. Prove me wrong people. If you’re not going to fight, that’s fine, but tell us what you would do to aid and support your country.
[quote="Taichung Social Club
It seems they want all the rights and privileges of citizenship without any of the responsibilities that go with it…[/quote]
OK then talking about responsibilities : why not ask those deciding to engage a country into a war to go with their soldiers ?
[quote=“Taichung Social Club”][quote=“Shin-Gua”]I’d rather fight than become a slave.
Some posters herein are already conditioned to be slaves [/quote]
It seems they want all the rights and privileges of citizenship without any of the responsibilities that go with it. Prove me wrong people. If you’re not going to fight, that’s fine, but tell us what you would do to aid and support your country.[/quote]
Bush isn’t there to aid and support his country. He’s there to benefit the people who backed both him and Kerry in the elections.
If he cared about defending his country why doesn’t he go to war with China who have generals talking about NUKING the US? If that was Iran saying that we’d never hear the end of it.
China - not weak enough I know.
[quote=“Shin-Gua”]I’d rather fight than become a slave.
Some posters herein are already conditioned to be slaves 
[/quote]
Only in your own mind.
The position of a true pacifist is that they would rather die than kill.
Thus a pacifist would offer non-violent resistance to an invader.
Which explains why there’s not a lot of pacifists out there.
And why non-violent resistance a la Gandhi or MLK only works against liberal democracies.
Or, as the rather flagrantly homosexual Lytton Strachey said:
[quote=“MikeN”]The position of a true pacifist is that they would rather die than kill.
…Which explains why there’s not a lot of pacifists out there.[/quote]
Evolution at work?
Valid point.
Firstly let me say that I don’t, and have never had, the view “my country, right or wrong”. I’ve always considered myself a citizen of the world, above being a citizen of Australia. So I will address your question as if it said “tell us what you would do to aid and support the world”.
By that, I mean - what could I do that would result in the least amount of death and suffering of people everywhere, in the event of a general war.
Could I do anything to stop it - no. No one person could (presidents and prime ministers etc not included 
)
So what could I do to ease suffering, and support peace? Humanitarian aid work. Assisting refugees. Post-war reconstruction work. Education. Lobbying for diplomacy (after all, all wars end with the warring parties negotiating a cease-fire and/or surrender).
Pacifists are only allowed to exist by the good will of the non-pacifist. It takes two to have peace, but only one to make war. A lot of pacifists have found out the hard way that when the chips are down they find out, much to their surprise, they’ll fight to preserve their freedom. Also surprising is that they make the best and most fierce fighters.
These guys get killed din bombing raids too ya know… If you’er a soldier you’re menat to do as your ordered. The army isn’t a democracy where you get to have the majority vote…
You would go if called up and then play coward in the back row… :bravo: :bravo:
Timely & relevant article from the Toronto Sun:
[quote]Remember why they serve
Yesterday was the single worst day yet for Canadian soldiers in Aghanistan, with four killed and at least seven wounded. These latest casualties came even as funeral services were held for two earlier ones. And sadly, they won’t be the last.
This is the stark reality of what many still naively call “peacekeeping” in the post-9/11 world – and it’s exactly what Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier warned about a year ago, when he said our forces in Kandahar would have to kill “murderers and scumbags” who “are trying to blow up men and women in Afghanistan and … provide a base for al-Qaida.”
A reminder of those words is in order today – not for the troops, but for all other Canadians.
By all accounts, the soldiers – a new group of whom are departing for Afghanistan from Trenton today – are crystal clear on the dangers of this mission and their commitment to it.
They understand that this is what the “war on terrorism” really is – not just rhetoric, but combat. Against a shadowy enemy that hides among civilians and uses ambushes and bombs to wreak terror and fear among the population, here and there.
At the same time, our troops are tasked with winning the trust of ordinary Afghans to help them feel safe and secure. All in the name of bringing stability to the country so democracy can grow.
It is an enormously challenging, terrifying job. And they are doing it brilliantly. As Brig. Gen. David Fraser said yesterday, “The cost (of yesterday’s operation) was significant. The cost against the Taliban was even more significant.”
Canada has now lost 23 soldiers in Afghanistan since 2002; 15 in the past six months alone. Every one of them understood the sacrifice required of them and why it was necessary.
To honour them, all Canadians need to understand that too.
“What the men and women in harm’s way want and need to know at moments like this is that the government and Canadians stand behind their mission,” PM Stephen Harper said yesterday. Just so. What they do not want or need is for their deaths to make us second-guess our commitment, or worse, for their work to be hysterically dismissed as part of “George Bush’s war” in Iraq, or some other partisan nonsense.
Like every other Canadian soldier killed serving this country since Confederation, they understood their duty, and they deserve the same honour and remembrance. Lest we forget.
torontosun.com/Comment/Comme … 18314.html[/quote]
<Insert cake’s next anti George W. Bush rant here>
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Timely & relevant article from the Toronto Sun:
[quote]Remember why they serve
Yesterday was the single worst day yet for Canadian soldiers in Aghanistan, with four killed and at least seven wounded. These latest casualties came even as funeral services were held for two earlier ones. And sadly, they won’t be the last.
This is the stark reality of what many still naively call “peacekeeping” in the post-9/11 world – and it’s exactly what Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier warned about a year ago, when he said our forces in Kandahar would have to kill “murderers and scumbags” who “are trying to blow up men and women in Afghanistan and … provide a base for al-Qaida.”
A reminder of those words is in order today – not for the troops, but for all other Canadians.
By all accounts, the soldiers – a new group of whom are departing for Afghanistan from Trenton today – are crystal clear on the dangers of this mission and their commitment to it.
They understand that this is what the “war on terrorism” really is – not just rhetoric, but combat. Against a shadowy enemy that hides among civilians and uses ambushes and bombs to wreak terror and fear among the population, here and there.
At the same time, our troops are tasked with winning the trust of ordinary Afghans to help them feel safe and secure. All in the name of bringing stability to the country so democracy can grow.
It is an enormously challenging, terrifying job. And they are doing it brilliantly. As Brig. Gen. David Fraser said yesterday, “The cost (of yesterday’s operation) was significant. The cost against the Taliban was even more significant.”
Canada has now lost 23 soldiers in Afghanistan since 2002; 15 in the past six months alone. Every one of them understood the sacrifice required of them and why it was necessary.
To honour them, all Canadians need to understand that too.
“What the men and women in harm’s way want and need to know at moments like this is that the government and Canadians stand behind their mission,” PM Stephen Harper said yesterday. Just so. What they do not want or need is for their deaths to make us second-guess our commitment, or worse, for their work to be hysterically dismissed as part of “George Bush’s war” in Iraq, or some other partisan nonsense.
Like every other Canadian soldier killed serving this country since Confederation, they understood their duty, and they deserve the same honour and remembrance. Lest we forget.
torontosun.com/Comment/Comme … 18314.html[/quote][/quote]
Yes, full support for our troops in Afghanistan (and may they fart in Dr. Evil’s general direction, not to mention waving their private parts at his aunties) (apologies to Evil aunties; it’s probably not their fault)
Oh, and thanks unto the Lord that Stephen Harper was not in power in 2003 to lead our soldiers into "George Bush’s war " between Sunni terrorists and Shiite death squads.
Canadians responding to the call to join their countrymen…
[quote]Canadian Forces report rise in applications
Afghanistan deaths don’t deter patriotic recruits
James Gordon, The Ottawa Citizen, Published: Tuesday, August 08, 2006
Despite the recent spate of high-profile troop deaths in Afghanistan, the Canadian Forces say their recruiting numbers are actually up.
Five Canadian soldiers died and 13 were injured in four separate incidents last week, making it the country’s deadliest week since military operations began in 2002. That brings the number of Canadians killed in action there to 24, with 16 losing their lives in the past six months.
Yet according to recruiters, the escalating death toll doesn’t appear to be keeping people from signing up.
Maj. Andy Coxhead, public affairs officer for the Canadian Forces’ recruiting group, says 17,000 people have submitted applications over the past six months.
That includes 9,000 between April and June, a quarter that started with the deaths of four Canadians in a major roadside bomb incident.
“We generally receive about 25,000 applications a year, so that’s pretty darn good actually,” Maj. Coxhead said. “Recruiting is going well right now.”(more at link)
canada.com/ottawacitizen[/quote]
Not all Canadians teach English.
Not all Canadians teach English.[/quote]
But some are more “English” than others, or have the option to be anyways .