Anyone see any irony in the fact that it happened in Kaohsiung? (Consider the city’s old name.)
I’m sure you could school me on how to help animals in various situations… And no, it’s not a blanket generalization… It’s a fact.
[quote]IMHO getting the police involved is almost always the wrong move. It will only make this guy hate dogs further, and not see the error in his ways, he will need to learn that himself.[/quote]Might as well scrap the animal protection law while you’re at it.
First you mention something about whitey do good, and about the OP not doing anything about the guy beating the dog. When in reality, the OP did not film it and the person who did isn’t white. In addition to that, the person who did film this stated being very scared of the guy, and it could be a girl or a kid with his/her camera cell phone for all we know. And now you mention the police…
The police did not handle this case, The Kaohsiung County Animal Health Institute took this case.
Now those are facts, as for my opinion, I think it’s very important to report animal abuse to the proper authorities, not the police. The animal health officers can request help from the police to deal with more serious cases as the one depicted in this thread, and the law covers an array of other offenses that are not as flagrant. But people don’t know about this, here. Many people don’t even know that animals are protected by the law. The law was passed in 1998, and many people aren’t aware of it.
You post as if doing this to an animal isn’t even a crime! Do you try to reason with someone who you catch breaking into a car or a house? Do you try to reason with someone you see snagging a women’s purse? No! You gather evidence if you can, and you call the proper authority. You can also intervene but that is not something many people would do when facing a drunk person with a stick.
Withey do good-take the law in my own hands… Now that’s what I would not recommend AT ALL. It’s a crime and people have to be reported for their crimes against animals if we’re ever going to see things improve further for the animals in Taiwan.
marboulette[/quote]
wow, you STILL don’t get my point.
my bad for thinking the camera person was a furriner, I never mentioned in in my later posts (after you informed me), but you won’t seem to let it go.
I’ve seen your longwinded diatribes in other threads, I have seen how they ramble on and cherry pick facts that suit your stance, and now I can’t believe I am in your crosshairs.
face or loss there of has varying degrees (as Gingerman points out) but you seem to be of the mindset: “DO NOT help out, teach or inform a local in any way, loss of face is the be all and end all here.” Life is not so black and white, nor is face.
I still thinking the camera person should have intervened, but you, up in your ivory tower atop Mt. Pious seem to think the best thing is to film it and take it to the requisite authorities as not to damage the poor lads precious face or risk the consequences of what may happen if captain spindly loses face.
This is where you and I differ, I would be proactive and you would be reactive.
And YES, I do think it is a crime, but instead of watching someone beat a dog while I film, I might just put my camera down and do something about.
here, lets role play, I will be Marboulette and use his/her logic:
(me as Marboulette): If you saw someone beating a kid in the department store, would you stop it or would you just film it and send it to child protective services?
See, the way you go at this makes it difficult for a reasonable exchange, you are very hard headed and don’t seem to view others points rationally.
I’m with Deuce on this one.
Reason?
Yes, one always tries to reason with Evil. Yet, it’s a slippery slope.
Very subjective, one knows.
Yet far better to strike while the evil is hot.
It’s all very well to sit back and film, yet why not film the pre-emptive strike?
I suppose the bats might impair the visual element.
[quote]wow, you STILL don’t get my point.[/quote]Isn’t this your point? Look below:
You said it in black and white, and you even gave us a nice scenario where you would ask the guy why he did this while letting him walk away after he committed a very serious crime against another living being. Call it diatribes, I call it common sense to report people like this as opposed to just letting them walk.
[quote]but you seem to be of the mindset: "DO NOT help out[/quote]Really?
Read this again:[quote]You can also intervene but that is not something many people would do when facing a drunk person with a stick.[/quote]And this:
If you read this again, you should be able to gather that I think saving the dog from more harm by intervening would be excellent, but that leaving it at that is the wrong approach. I actually asked the author of the movie why he/she did not intervene, and he/she responded to me that he/she was scared shitless and pointed to the fact that he/she had already explained this in the video description. But it’s in Chinese and I couldn’t read it. I take his/her word for it because I know that MANY people would be very scared to intervene.
Of course I would personally intervene if I witnessed that. In fact, it would be really hard for me not to kick the guys ass solid. But I would most likely attempt to control myself, stop the man from hurting the dog further, and then I would contact the authorities.
You, OTOH, you suggest giving the guy a WTF? look and letting him walk away as if he merely just pissed in your grandmother’s garden. You CLEARLY state that reporting people like that is “almost always the wrong move.” It’s a crime, and criminals like that need to be dealt with by proper law enforcing authorities.
You conveniently try to make it sound like I advocate doing nothing other than reporting the guy. You got it all wrong, mate. Go look at the video again, look at the comments section and read my comment. My user name on YouTube is Armattan. I wrote “WHY on earth did you NOT ask the guy to stop instead of just filming?”
Not only did you get all the facts mixed up in your first post, you just carry on misinterpreting everything. This is tedious… This is not someone littering in front of your house or pissing on your SUV’s tire. It’s someone torturing a living being for god’s sake. You don’t just save him face… You protect yourself by not making him lose face if you’re not confident to intervene by yourself, and you report the fucker. Let the proper authorities make him lose face as he deserves. It is far more culturally sensitive as far as your own safety is concerned for people who are afraid to intervene, as is the case IN THIS THREAD.
In this case, the dog beater is currently facing charges and the court will rule as per the law.
I have never reported on anyone in my entire life.
well, sure we all squeal for material gain.
But:
Natural justice is much more expedient than that of the State.
So you think it’s OK to just ask the guy why he did this with a WTF look and let him walk? Jesus! :s Besides, you people need to understand that the person who filmed this was scared. If you’re not scared, OF COURSE you should stop the guy. But letting him walk away as in “contacting the police is almost always the wrong move.” That’s ridiculous. Like I said, this is not someone pissing in your grandma’s garden we’re talking about, here. :fume:
marboulette
[quote=“TheGingerMan”]I’m with Deuce on this one.
Reason?
Yes, one always tries to reason with Evil. Yet, it’s a slippery slope.
Very subjective, one knows.
Yet far better to strike while the evil is hot.
It’s all very well to sit back and film, yet why not film the pre-emptive strike?
I suppose the bats might impair the visual element.[/quote]
You try that without reporting the guy in Kaohsiung county… Next thing you know you’ll have 20 scooter punks beating you like that asshole was beating the dog. That’s culturally insensitive at best. Besides, You call a “WTF look and a Weisheme?” justice in this case? Give me a break!
marboulette
[quote=“TheGingerMan”]I have never reported on anyone in my entire life.
well, sure we all squeal for material gain.
But:
Natural justice is much more expedient than that of the State.[/quote]
Scared.
fugg.
so what?
We are all scared. Real life is about going over the top of the trenches.
Sorry if I'm playing my ace, but why the fuck not?
I'm 6"4, with a huge oranguatan flail. My stature entails that others will look up to me. Put me in that spotlight, and pretty soon it's a matter of going for the high ground. And I don't mean that of ethics, but that of the Earth.
Call me Ishmael, but duty calls engaging evil, not calling it in for later.
One does not gather much sustenance from the trickle-down.
As for being insensitive to culture, christ if that's not a shooting gallery.
Culture is a four letter word.[quote]I still thinking the camera person should have intervened, but you, up in your ivory tower atop Mt. Pious seem to think the best thing is to film it and take it to the requisite authorities as not to damage the poor lads precious face or risk the consequences of what may happen if captain spindly loses face.
[/quote]
Yes. All 47 pounds of her 13-year-old good self. You have no idea who shot that film. If it was me, I’d maybe have thought about delivering some beat-down. IF I thought I could get down there fast enough. If not, I might have thrown a couple of flowerpots at him off the balcony from which the vid was obviously shot. Maybe the child HAD no flowerpots. She filmed what she thought was an outrage and tried to publicize it in her own way. Maybe not the way she’d have chosen IF she happened to be armed with the facts. There’s another very angry dog-loving local poster on here just today who’s desperate to do something, but he also had absolutely NO idea that there’s a number you can call that doesn’t involve the rozzers. Don’t be so quick to judge.
[quote=“TheGingerMan”]
Call me Ishmael, but duty calls engaging evil, not calling it in for later.
One does not gather much sustenance from the trickle-down.[/quote]OK, fair enough, you’re a big guy and you would not be scared. I wouldn’t be scared going against that young punk, either, but if the punk was you at 6’4, you bet I would. And if the person is a 80 pound girl, why should she not be scared? It would be stupid not to be cautious.
You talk about engaging the guy and administrating justice on your own. So I ask you again… Do you really think a fucker like that deserves just a “WTF look and a weisheme” ? Is that what you consider adequate justice? I somehow doubt that you are thinking about being culturally sensitive and not making the guy lose face when you talk about administrating justice by yourself. That’s what Deuce is saying. You sure you’re with him on this? Sounds like one guy is saying "be culturrrrmurrrally sensitive and stop the guy without making him lose face too much, let him walk, it’s best for the dogs in the future, while the other guy says I’m 6’4 and I would kick his motherfucking ass. 
marboulette
[quote=“sandman”] There’s another very angry dog-loving local poster on here just today who’s desperate to do something, but he also had absolutely NO idea that there’s a number you can call that doesn’t involve the rozzers. Don’t be so quick to judge.[/quote]Not only quick to judge… Immediately following the post where I informed said angry dog-loving local poster about the proper authorities to call, he replied with this(His first post in this thread):
[quote=“Deuce”]Each one teach one, that’s how we reach one.
It always works better than involving the authorities.[/quote]
If you read that the way I do, he’s basically saying that involving the authorities is the wrong thing to do:
And when asked what he would do instead, he says: [quote]there are plenty of ways to point things out and teach people to change with everyone keeping their face in tact. [/quote]And this: [quote=“Deuce”]Then I would tend to the dog giving him a WTF? style Weisheme? Dude’s rage would be diffused, and his tail would be between his legs as he went away feeling like a right prick.[/quote]
So no, he’s not just quick to judge, but he’s basically saying that a guy like that should be meant to lose face minimally. I’m saying the guy FULLY deserves to be disfigured(figuratively), let alone lose face, but one has to be culturally sensitive about this to assure one’s safety. Making someone lose face can be dangerous here, and we all know that.
And finally, the drop that spilled the bucket was this: [quote=“Deuce”]I’ve seen your longwinded diatribes in other threads, I have seen how they ramble on and cherry pick facts that suit your stance, and now I can’t believe I am in your crosshairs.
[/quote]How about you start making sense and you won’t have any problems. Letting a guy who does this walk away while trying not to make him lose face and advocating NOT calling the authorities is nothing short of mind-blowing stupidity. The guy fucking tortured a living being for no reason WHATSOEVER, and you suggest letting him walk away without even making him lose face. :loco: :fume:
marboulette
Man. Just let me know where the guy lives and i’ll sort him out.
That guy deserves to lose both faces.
[quote=“marboulette”][quote=“sandman”] Letting a guy who does this walk away while trying not to make him lose face and advocating NOT calling the authorities is nothing short of mind-blowing stupidity.
marboulette[/quote][/quote]
Mr Marboulette, I feel your anger and outrage, but I must agree with Mr Dropper to a certain extent. Calling the animal welfare people might get something done, but calling The Man will yield sweet fuck-all, and may even be counter-productive.
The cops here don’t give a shit about animal rights and protection, despite what the law dictates. To them it’s just a pain in the butt from some wank big-nose on a moral high-ground.
They are in the pockets of the gangsters and are far more inclined to let the agoah lose face than risk their own shady credibility and under-the-table red envelopes. Plus, who the fuck needs the paperwork? The road to promotion and respect in the police force is hardly paved with the good intentions of animal rights activists masquerading as police officers.
[quote=“jimipresley”][quote=“marboulette”][quote=“sandman”] Letting a guy who does this walk away while trying not to make him lose face and advocating NOT calling the authorities is nothing short of mind-blowing stupidity.
marboulette[/quote][/quote]
Mr Marboulette, I feel your anger and outrage, but I must agree with Mr Dropper to a certain extent. Calling the animal welfare people might get something done, but calling The Man will yield sweet fuck-all, and may even be counter-productive.
[/quote]
Calling the cops will do nothing. But if you backtrack in the thread you will see that A-His first post is right after my post where I provided the information necessary to call the proper “authorities” and not the cops. In said first post of his, he uses the word “authorities” which one would think he read the info I posted, and B- I made in clear in subsequent posts(in case he missed it) that The Animal Welfare Institute officers are the ones that need to be alerted, and not the cops. Despite that, he carries on advocating against calling the authorities. Who’s talking about the cops? And moreover C- His approach to dealing with this, as he made very clear, would be to not make the guy lose face and let him walk away. If that isn’t doing sweet fuck all, I don’t know what is.
marboulette
Agreed.
Worse is, and truth is, I don’t mean to rag on the guy so damn much. I have nothing against him, but I’m really furious about this. This shit HAS TO BE REPORTED! It’s a CRIME! Why the fuck am I arguing that cases like this have to be brought to justice? 
marboulette
Worse is, and truth is, I don’t mean to rag on the guy so damn much. I have nothing against him, but I’m really furious about this. This shit HAS TO BE REPORTED! It’s a CRIME! Why the fuck am I arguing that cases like this have to be brought to justice?
marboulette[/quote]
Mr Marboulette. I’m hearing you. Thing is, most people don’t give a shit about animals. Fer chrissakes, some people actually EAT them! Here in Asia it’s even worse. You got that whole selfish, egocentric shit that humans are superior and every other living thing is at their mercy. A small man dressed in brief authority struts his hour upon the stage. People are ass-fucked by their families and employers all the time, by people with more “power” than them. What do they take that anger and shame out on? Something weaker than them. Their kids or animals. Sad fucking psychology, man.
As an aside: It confounds me how so many animal rights advocates still eat meat, knowing the inhumane conditions that their dinner suffers and the vile cruelty of slaughterhouses.
wow Marboulette, you are such a bitch in this thread it is beyond comprehension.
I assumed ‘authorities’ to be cops, whom calling, gets nothing done.
I thought the camera man should intervene.
I toned down the loss of face to the assailant because it avoids more violence. This is something you were adamant about earlier in the thread.
Here (you even signed your name):
[quote]That doesn’t work, here. That’s like saying making one lose face is the way to go about making one change his ways… That’s about as culturally insensitive as can be.
marboulette[/quote]
had it been me I would have broken both his fucking legs but I said what I said to be PC.
Do you really think someone like yourself, who has constantly misinterpreted everything I said (for your own petty gain in this ‘discussion’ no less) should really be breaking things down semantically?
Really Marboulette?
REALLY?
Here is my stance again for the umpteenth time (since English comprehension is so beyond your grasp).
-Act was horrible
-camera person should have intervened
-calling the police doesn’t solve the problem
-many people here view dogs as DOGS not family members, they need to be educated
Please stop whining about me to other posters, you only come off as a total bitch (but maybe you are), and please stop breaking down everything I post and trying to find some semantic or logical break (I could easily do it to you too, but it is a petty act).
Edit: Choosing to be PC is one thing, but posting the opposite of what you would do is another. Don’t blame me for reacting when you post/advocate shit to be PC that you now claim you would NOT do nor advocate.
Next time just read the fucking thread before you post. No one was talking about cops except YOU, and you used the term “authorities” in a post immediately after I posted contact information for the proper “AUTHORITIES.” How’s that? Semantics my ass.
[quote]I could easily do it to you too[/quote]Be my fucking guest, but I read the thread before I posted. Might be a tad harder for you. And semantics is one thing, whole statements are another thing altogether.
Get lost.
marboulette
still at it?
still on the ‘authority’ bit too?
you really can’t deal with differing opinions can you?
you think whistle blowing is the way to go and I don’t. We differ, get over yourself