If your talking of musk, yes we can blame him for his ridiculous ego and lack lustre fucks given towards human rights and all his decisions based on such selfishness.
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Musk can sell some Tesla shares, pay for it (Starlink) and have it deducted from his taxes. He friggin’ owns it.
You didnt seem to get the memo 
The thing is Musk isn’t throwing in extra money to provide Ukrainians with internet. The satellites are already in place, and the Ukrainians have to buy the starlink antenna, which Musk seems to have stopped shipping tuem, as Denys Davydov didn’t get his on time. At most Musk isn’t getting money for providing that service, something he didn’t have a problem with at the start of the conflict. Of course, he could ask the Pentagon to flip that bill, or he would ask the Ukrainians to pay for it after the war. However, to say that he is spending extra money to provide Ukrainians with internet seems like a misrepresentation.
ICE don’t wear and degrade? If there were meaningful stats on it, I’d consider a wager of the relative efficiency of average ice vs battery vehicles at 200k miles…
Gas isn’t exactly immune to fire.
There are some very clear potential benefits of electric and hybrid cars even if you don’t give two hoots about gas vs electric. Cheaper operating costs. Lower maintenance. High performance. More convenient refueling for day-to-day driving if you have a garage.
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First easy step: cancel your twitter account.
2: don’t buy a tesla
3: don’t buy a space flight ticket
Not too difficult, eh?
I find the way he solves problems by reading textbook inspirational.
Elon Musk, a case where someone was dumb enough to become one of the richest men on earth.
Think about it, anyone with a little more brain would never have made any of the key decisions that made him rich.
First time I noticed his lack of understanding was when he claimed that he could terraform Mars by blowing up nukes at its poles.
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We must not compare apples to oranges. We are comparing the energy storage of batteries vs. a tank of petrol or diesel.
^ Lithium battery self-discharge
Meanwhile, does a tank of diesel or petrol lose 20% of its content after 30 days?
Furthermore, apart from self-discharge, the batteries have a lifespan as well. It is estimated to be about 300-500 charge cycles.
https://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/tektronix/LIBMG.pdf
Gas fires are easier to fight and more predictable. For gas fires, you just need to separate the fuel from oxygen, or quench it, and it goes out for good.
For lithium battery fires, they can spontaneously ignite and re-ignite.
The fumes from lithium battery fires are much more toxic than gas fires, containing HCl and HF.
Furthermore, in any battery, by definition, the oxidizer and fuel are intimately mixed, ready to go. Therefore a battery already has 2 elements of the fire triangle - fuel + oxidizer. In a gas fire, there is only 1 of 3 elements - fuel.
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Gasoline goes bad after a while by the way…
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Good point but biocides and other measures against bacterial & fungal degradation of fuel is a mature field with known, workable and mostly effective solutions.
Preventing battery self-discharge may not have a perfect solution. The reason being that for batteries to have good power densities, they must have two or more chemicals that want to react with each other, mixed intimately. Therefore over time, they spontaneously react with each other, even in the absence of an external load on the circuit, resulting in the observed self-discharge.
Also the fact that batteries need to carry their own oxidizer, while petrol/diesel get their oxidizer from the air, means that petrol/diesel inherently have a volumetric energy density advantage.
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no… but the battery it has will also self discharge, so you’re stuck anyway. and leaving gas longer might gunk up your system, requiring expensive service. everything has downsides.
charge cycles are defined as fully charged to fully discharged to fully charged, so 300-500 cycles lasts a LONG time. I think the data is suggesting some 250k-300k miles before Tesla batteries are typically down to 90% capacity.
The self-discharge in a lead-acid battery that is not the main source of energy for the car is less of an issue. Worst case scenario you jump start it.
Not too long ago, if someone sold me a car whose fuel tank will shrink in size by 10% after 160k miles (see link below), but hey, it’s “Only 10%”, I would tell them thanks but no thanks.
https://electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-replacement/
Look, I’m an engineer and not the smartest one at that. Which means I like simple solutions with less bells and whistles, and less things to go wrong. I refer you to the news article below, where a man was burnt alive in his Tesla because the car doors were too smart to be opened.
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being the main source of energy or not, if it can’t start, you stuck. and not the worst - when a battery dies (vs being too low to start the vehicle) on a modern car, it typically can’t be jump started.
the data you link to suggests more than 160k mi before you’re at 90% capacity.
what if the tank stayed the same size but efficiency was down 10%? you don’t think that’s possible on an ice engine? if it’s possible, what’s the difference?
ice engine vs electric motor… the ice engine is simpler, in what aspect? the count of moving parts has to be several orders of magnitude in favor of the electric drivetrain, right? total drivetrain MEL, a couple hundred percent in favor of the ev?
That’s not, not because it’s an electric car. Paul Walker’s family sued Porsche too, so are we indicating ice vehicles because of that?
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My 2015 diesel car whose battery died was jump started with a jumper pack. Drove straight to a mechanic who confirmed the battery was dead.
If it was a Tesla with a discharged, or dead battery, the story would be a bit different.
Oh come on, you’re not going to quibble over a few percent when the general point still stands, are you? In any case here’s the operative sentence for you:
Now the second battery pack on this Model X has almost 100,000 miles (160,000 km) on it and as previously mentioned, it is seeing a roughly 10% battery degradation.
It is a big difference. A shrinking fuel tank or smaller battery capacity is one of diminishing range.
Efficiency going down is one of diminishing range per $.
And I think it wouldn’t be so easy to find evidence of an ICE’s efficiency dropping by 10% after 160k miles, unless there was abuse or some serious fault. Perhaps you’d be so kind as to present evidence to this effect?
In the article I posted, about the driver being burnt with bystanders unable to help, I specifically said that it was because the doors were too smart to be unlocked. So why are you comparing ICE to electric motors?
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that few percent seems likely to happen over years of driving…
you’re going to point out them talking about 1 pack as the operative point, vs that plot of data?
uh, how does range per dollar go down for the same tank capacity without range going down?
I’ll admit I’m just assuming that cars at 160k-200k miles generally aren’t in as good condition as newer cars. cars not in as good condition are going to be less efficient. do you even disagree with this, or do you actually want data to support that?
which has nothing to do with it being an electric car, so…?
if you like simpler solutions, electric drivetrains should be super attractive to you.
A proper Taiwanese response would be buying a put option on Tesla share for half a billion…
Someone has to teach him a lesson
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Oh, so you are quibbling over a few percent. Sigh.
In which case perhaps you’d like to revisit the most important points against EVs and hybrids, which is safety and flammability.
Your selective debate over a few percentage points, vs. the most important questions such as spontaneously being burnt alive, makes me suspect you are either trolling or are not unbiased in this matter.
You pulled out a figure from the air of an ICE losing efficiency of 10% due to usage. I’m telling you that this figure, if true, impacts both range and fuel economy.
Battery packs losing 10% of their capacity would just impact range.
Again you are comparing apples and oranges. Therefore you cannot compare a 10% degradation in engine efficiency to a 10% degradation in battery capacity.
Yes please provide the data and cite reliable sources.
This sub-thread began as a critique of electric cars. Do you buy just the electric drivetrains, or electric cars?
Do you think the Tesla’s door lock which prevented bystanders from rescuing the driver was over-engineered?
guy is a clown.
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I wonder how this story ended up.
Regarding him being the richest guy in the World… how much of his fortune is actually the “value” of Tesla and his other companies? we know for a fact that the stocks/value of Tesla is super inflated, doesn’t reflect reality even remotely.
Not sure if the following was sarcastic or not:
But apart from what I said above regarding his fortune, his fortune was indeed coming after luck and not being a genious. He was working at a company that was purchased later on by the company that will come up with Paypal. When he was fired because his incompetency he was giving stocks, and these went up because of Paypal/eBay, which some seem to believe that he created. No, he didn’t created Paypal at all.
I will give him that he’s been an active business man and that he has put his money to produce, which is good. But most of what he has been saying was bullshit, plain lies, or misguided stupid shit.
Space X also wouldn’t exist without all the money the USA government has given to them. Similarly his retarded tunnels get funded by the government even though they are useless shit. He claims to have invented something he calls the hyperloop, while the main idea has been around for around a hundred years. Also There have been several attempts and implementations of the technology involved, but vacuum trains are stupid anyway, so there’s none working in reality.
Musk is mischievous marketing and bullshit. And tremendous, difficult to understand hype.
As for Electric vehicles: probably they have a use, and we need to explore technologies like that so that in the future we have real alternatives. At the moment they are not.
One of the problems that EV have which I believe hasn’t been mentioned here before is the weight of the batteries, which is also related to energy density and reach. The energy density of the batteries makes EV not practical in many (most?) scenarios. His truck is an example.
But this thread should be about his insights on the Taiwan / China issue.
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