Ketogenic "Keto" diet in Taiwan


#121

Are you a dietitian or you specialize in family medicine?
Actually I am very curious about the scientific/medical part of weight loss vs. What a normal person might actually encounter experimenting themselves.
I have not studied nutrition but i’ve Read multiple books on different views about weight loss and of course went through my fad diet fase as well so I can only speak by personal experience and the one experienced by friends, classmates and so on


#122

I think I will, thanks for the advice. Lo-carb diets in general work well (for me), but this has the added benefit of my not having to hunt down lo-carb ingredients and having to work at variation in preparations once I do (or at least cutting that chore by two-thirds).

Sociability is way overrated, anyway.


#123

completefoods.co
Click on the Taiwan flag on the left, or do like me and make your own from the US recipes. I don’t do keto myself, but I’ve made half decent variants of different recipes.


#124

Clearly, then, they were doing it wrong, or they wouldn’t be morbidly obese. I suppose people in that condition may have a very unhealthy relationship with food and are likely to swing from one extreme to the other.

That’s not what it’s about. Certainly you add a little more fat to your meals, but I agree with you that “tons of” anything is not likely to be helpful.

You’re condemning LCHF on the basis that some people don’t understand how it works and don’t do it correctly.

Why do you believe people ‘need’ carbs? No doctor ever wrote ‘carb deficiency’ on a death certificate.

I agree with you that it’s perfectly possible to eat a diet with a modest amount of carbs and not get fat, with two provisos:

  • People who are addicted to carbs and/or are insulin-resistant are simply incapable of getting to that place. They will crave carbs above and beyond what’s healthy.
  • People with a very low carb threshold (for whatever reason) have to eat fewer carbs than people with a higher threshold, or they’ll get fat.

I’m afraid they do. You’re basically saying that those millions of people who have had success with this mode of eating are either lying, or don’t exist.

This sounds superficially plausible, but it’s wrong. I’m not being patronising, but it’s very hard to explain WHY it’s wrong to someone without an adequate background in science: if you don’t know the difference between a joule and a watt, or don’t understand basic chemical dynamics, it’s very tempting to believe that “a calorie is a calorie”. Yes, your total bodyweight is loosely correlated with the amount of food you eat; your bodyweight partitioning between fat, muscle and water - which is what we care about here - is far more complex.

Your body is not just a passive vessel that burns everything that gets thrown into it. It is a system of interlocking control loops. Broadly speaking, any closed-loop system will maintain conditions at its setpoint unless its actuators cannot compensate for disturbance. In other words, a body will maintain its weight unless it is stressed beyond a certain point by incorrect feeding: at that point, the control system just “breaks”. There is no linear dose-response relationship: the failure point is a brittle one.

It is rocket science. It is very, very complicated, as you’ll discover if you would care to do some research on human metabolism. Simplistically, though, LCHF works by switching off the hormones that promote fat storage. It also tends to normalise appetite (mechanism unknown, but it seems to be something to do with leptins, a class of hormones which are mediated by fat cells).

You’re just making assertions without explaining your rationale.

Neither of those foods will cause an insulin response. It is therefore physically impossible for the body to store that calorie input as fat. While insulin remains low, the liver responds by releasing glucose (from glycogen) to maintain blood sugar, and the majority of the fat content in the meal is burned directly for energy.


#125

The theory behind Jason Fung’s book “the Obesity Code” is that Insulin, Cortisol, and Leptin dictate the body’s regulation of basal weight. One must be in synch with these hormones to establish the correct homeostasis and reset the inner “body weight thermometer”.

Obesity is very much like psychiatric diseases (depression and mood disorder). Obesity is an imbalance of hormones leading to insulin resistance, insulin insensitivity, cortisol and leptin imbalances. Where as Mood disorder and depression is an imbalance of dopamine, epinephrine, serotonin, and Acetylcholinerase imbalance .

Hormones dictate so many aspect of our health. Exercise, yoga relaxation, sleep, and a proper diet all play important roles in maintaining optimal health. There’s no right or wrong. Everyone has their own approach to achieve balance and moderation in life. Kudos to everyone here inspiring to help others and passing on the knowledge.

I am a medical doctor specializing in Dermatology and Family Medicine from the U.S. and now practice at a community hospital in the East district of Taipei. All is welcome to PM me if ever in need of any health services . Nice meeting you all on the wonderful community of Forumosa


#126

Tea and Coffee are not carb drinks. You can have 2 litres of tea without milk or sugar and put on zero weight


#127

I’m 183cm tall and my weight ranges from 72 - 74kg depending on hydration levels. I don’t look I have cancer. I look lean. Years ago before I started to eat right, I was at 115kg and looked like a balloon ready to burst.


#128

Do you find that your energy levels or concentration would drop at work around lunchtime or in the afternoons?
Personally I could imagine two or two and a half meals per day but just one a day would seem challenging.


#129

I should be more careful, as I didn’t mean to insinuate that everyone would look bad with those kind of stats. But I really feel I personally would. I gain muscle mass fairly easily (I’ve never been huge or anything but I’ve always had a bit of muscle in my upper body, and at times legs too such as after a summer of mountains). And so at 75 kilos, I would be at a very, very low fat percentage and my muscle would be gone. I have a friend that’s around 185cm and probably under 80 kilos. He looks fine. He’s been skinny all his life and reaps the running benefits of that low weight.


#130

A lot of interesting info here. I’ve never tried a proper keto diet, mainly because the one that has always worked for me isn’t really focused on limiting the amount of carbs (though as I mentioned before I’m often low on carbs due to avoiding flour products, sugar and stuff like that). If I had to make a guess I’d say my average daily consumption is roughly 50%+ fat, 30%+ proteins, rest carbs.I think the main reasons why I’m not on a “proper” keto diet may be rice and fruit. It’s hard for me to turn down a fresh mango. Or two. Or a box.


#131

Most of th epeople in keto groups I have met/seen started obse or morbdly obese. Most have teh experience of excess weight melting away, literally, and not just water loss.

As the guy in the video explains, the issue is following the macros right, not abusing just any group and adding some exercise hopefuly weight training to the equation.

Too much protein spoils the stuff. Inhailing a tub of sugarless whipped cream might be good for the mood but snot so much for teh diet… yet whipped cream is “allowed”. This is not about adding bacon to everything. Believe me, bacon makes things better but even that can get boring. Butter is a staple in French cuisine and really does wonders for food. Natural animal fat is OK even in a moderate active lifestyle.

Try a cabbage stir fry with bacon. Serve with with a lamb chop or streak. A salad on the side or some asparagous and mayo. Lemon spirtz water. Simple and delicious. Filling and satisfying. Fiber, fats, proteins.

My coworker is now doing a no fat diet. She had some zucchini muffins made with 20 eggs, or rather 16 whites and 4 yolks. She was hungry soon after. I had a 3 egg omelette with bacon and cheese and gren onions, plus a small cup of guacamole. I am still finishing my coffee, black. Which sounds more appetizing?


#132

No fat diet sounds dreadful >_>


#133

The eggs of course, especially if you added steak.


#134

Which eggs? She use dthe eggs to make zuccjini muffins. Steak I am not sure if it is in her diet.

It was in mine though. So I had my cabbage and steak with a celery and tomato salad, plus some liver I got downstairs. It was awesome. I got Montreal steak rub, miss the one I bought in Vancouver.


#135

3 egg omelette with steak would be a great start to my day. Especially with fresh salsa (with raw garlic) and guacamole.


#136

Great. First day of Doc lotus425’s diet and you just HAD to go post about a 3E omelette, STEAK, fresh salsa, and guacamole. And me, 4+ hours away from my one and only meal today. :crazy_face:

At least I know what I’m havin’ tonight…


#137

Get a bit of chimichurri for the steak.


#138

Ok. I see where this is going. STOP THAT!


#139

Glad everyone here is so motivated. Just to reiterate my previous posts. There’s no right or wrong here. It’s all about self experimentation to find one’s homeostasis.
Body Mass Index = Kg divided by Meter Squared
Values greater than 26 are considered overweight. I would deter those with BMI less than 24 to go through intermittent fasting and ketogenic diet.

Dr Aitkins VS Dr Ornish diet has been beaten to death among weight loss doctors over the past decades. Dr. Aitkins died of a heart attack. Perhaps all protein is not the way live long term. I would suggest following the Ornish or mediterranean diet. But add intermittent fasting on top of Ornish / Mediterranean to get quicker result. Weigh yourself daily and decide how many meals you decide to eat tomorrow. My 5 months weight loss journey from 97 kg to 75 kg at the age of 43 has been huge success and a personal triumph. Your mileage may vary. Please have your family doctor over see your weight loss journey to be safe. I am happy to help any expat from formosa if you ever need anything just PM me.


#140

BMI doesn’t work for some people (I’m sure you know that, though). I’m 183cm, but due to anatomy and lifestyle (lifelong weightlifter) if I drop to 90kg I guarantee I will have people ask me if I’m on chemotherapy. I look seriously gaunt at that weight (I know, I’ve tried it).

Ideal weight for me is 93-95kg. I’m at 99 now, so have 4-6 to lose, and I am curious to see what results I get from IF.

By the way, after no food today I consumed about 2200 calories 2 hours ago, with no insulin-induced food coma, or even mild drowsiness. Impressive so far!

ETA: using Doc’s energy calculator in post 141 below, looks like I need to add a little over 300 calories tomorrow. Not a problem.