Let's talk about impeachment

I guess I’m living under a rock then. I certainly don’t believe she plays a significant role in the Capitol riot or impeachment process.

Trump has broken so many laws and committed so many impeachable offenses it’s absurd to even discuss it at this point. The only discussion is why people are so heavily invested in protecting a criminal.

This video is a giant picked cherry! Come on. Their quotes are generic stump speech quotes lifted from context entirely. None of them attacked the Capitol, or encouraged a mob of domestic terrorists to do.

Let’s talk about this in terms of DPP vs KMT for a minute. Does every time the KMT does something silly or illegal, we HAVE to find a KMT equivalent because 'other side"?

Trump broke the law, he encouraged an insurrection, he should be impeached. By your own definition. He’s accountable for his actions, even McConnell said so and he’s hardly ‘left’ last time I checked. Obviously the GOP refuse to hold him accountable for political reasons, and that is the problem. Not a handful of celebs making art projects to express their anger.

This video is an obvious propaganda piece.

Lunch time, have a good one.

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I don’t think he has.
If he has, he should be held accountable. Can you please list the laws he broke?

…but he didn’t and he wasn’t.

I did not vote for Trump. Nor do I care for him. I think he has a very questionable past and I don’t care for many things he has said and done. But just because I don’t like what he says or who he is doesn’t mean he broke any laws.

IDK why you keep bringing this up. Why do you think I think Democrats were somehow responsible for what happened at the Capital?

I am simply saying both the Republican Party and Democrat Party have mud on their hands and they have been slinging it at each other for years. After the Capital fiasco, the 2020 riots, business burnings and years of divide…the political landscape in the US has to change. Because what we have now is a mess that isn’t cleaning itself up.

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There is no comparison to what happened at the Capitol. That has never happened before. Here is a list of 12 impeachable offenses. (Source: Chris Hedges is a Pulitzer Prize–winning journalist who was a foreign correspondent for fifteen years for The New York Times , where he served as the Middle East Bureau Chief and Balkan Bureau Chief for the paper. He is the host of the Emmy Award-nominated RT America show On Contact . His most recent book is " America: The Farewell Tour " (2019).)

1. Contempt of Congress**

Trump made clear his contempt of Congress when he boasted, “… I have Article II, where I have the right to do whatever I want as president.”

“President Trump has repeatedly and unconstitutionally systematically undermined the congressional oversight power, including the ongoing congressional impeachment inquiry of the President himself, by instructing numerous current and former White House staff and members of the executive branch to defy congressional subpoenas on an unprecedented scale far beyond any previous President,” Fein wrote to Pelosi. “Without congressional authority, he has secretly deployed special forces abroad and employed secret guidelines for targeted killings, including American citizens, based on secret unsubstantiated information. He has unconstitutionally endeavored to block private persons or entities from responding to congressional requests or subpoenas for information, e.g., Deutsche Bank. He has refused to provide Congress information about nepotistic or other security clearances he granted in opposition to his own FBI security experts. He has refused to disclose his tax returns to the Chairman of the Ways and Means Committee contrary to a 1924 law, 26 U.S.C. 6103 (f).”

2. A buse of the Powers of the President and Abuse of Public Trust

“Unlike prior presidents, he has made presidential lies as routine as the rising and setting of the sun, confounding civil discourse, truth and public trust,” the memo to Pelosi reads. “He has disrespected, belittled, and serially preyed upon women, mocked the disabled, incited violence against the mainstream media and critics, and encouraged and displayed bigotry towards minorities and minority Members of Congress, including intercession with Israel in serious violation of the Speech or Debate Clause, Article I, section 6, clause 1, to deny two Members visitor visas.”

3. Appropriations Clause, Revenue Clause

“Congress has consistently voted much less money than President Trump requested to build an extensive, multi-billion-dollar wall with Mexico,” the memo reads. “In violation of the Clause and the criminal prohibition of the Anti-Deficiency Act, President Trump has committed to spending billions of dollars far in excess of what Congress has appropriated for the wall. The congressional power of the purse is a cornerstone of the Constitution’s separation of powers.”

Article I, Section 7, Clause 1 of the Constitution requires all revenue measures to originate in the House of Representatives.

“In violation of the Clause, President Trump has raised tens of billions of dollars by unilaterally imposing tariffs with limitless discretion under section 232 of the Trade Expansion Act of 1962,” the memo reads. “He has become a Foreign Trade Czar in imposing tariffs or quotas or granting exemptions from his trade restrictions in his unbridled discretion to assist political friends and punish political enemies. Literally trillions of dollars in international trade have been affected. Riches are made, and livelihoods destroyed overnight with the capricious stroke of President Trump’s pen.”

4. E moluments Clause

“Article I, section 9, clause 8 prohibits the President (and other federal officers), without the consent of Congress, from accepting any ‘present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatsoever, from any King, Prince, or foreign state.’

“President Trump has notoriously refused to place his assets in a blind trust,” the memo reads. “Instead, he continues to profit from opulent hotels heavily patronized by foreign governments. He has permitted his family to commercialize the White House. He has compromised the national interest to enrich family wealth on a scale unprecedented in the history of the presidency.”

5. Treaty Clause

Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 requires Senate ratification of treaties by two-thirds majorities. The text is silent as to whether treaty termination requires Senate ratification, and the Supreme Court held the issue was a non-justiciable political question in Goldwater v. Carter, 444 U.S. 996 (1979).

“President Trump flouted the Treaty Clause in terminating the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) with Russia unilaterally,” the memo reads. “The treaty assigned the termination decision to the ‘United States.’ The President alone is not the United States under the Treaty Clause.”

6. Declare War Clause

Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 empowers Congress alone to take the nation from a state of peace to a state of war. That power cannot be delegated.

“In violation of the Declare War Clause, President Trump has continued to wage or has initiated presidential wars in Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, and has used special forces offensively in several African nations,” the memo reads. “President Trump has claimed authority to initiate war against any nation or non-state actor in the world—not in self-defense—on his say-so alone, including war against North Korea, Iran, or Venezuela.”

7. T ake Care Clause; Presentment Clause

Article II, Section 3 obligates the president to “take care that the laws be faithfully executed.”

“In violation of that trust, President Donald J. Trump deliberately attempted to frustrate special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation of collaboration between the Trump 2016 campaign and Russia to influence the presidential election,” Fein points out. “Among other things, the President refused to answer specific questions relating to his presidential conduct; endeavored to fire the special counsel; dangled pardons for non-cooperating witnesses; and, urged Attorney General Jeff Sessions to reverse his recusal decision to better protect his presidency. In all these respects, the President was attempting to obstruct justice.”

“President Trump has also systematically declined to enforce statutory mandates of Congress by arbitrarily and capriciously revoking scores of agency rules ranging from immigration to the Consumer Financial Protection Board to the Environmental Protection Agency in violation of the Administrative Procedure Act or otherwise,” the memo reads. “He has routinely legislated by executive order in lieu of following constitutionally prescribed processes for legislation.”

“In violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, Mr. Trump has dismantled and disabled scores of preventive measures to save lives, avoid injuries or disease, help families, consumers, and workers, and detect, deter, and punish tens of billions of dollars of corporate fraud,” the memo continues. “He has disputed climate disruption as a ‘Chinese hoax,’ compounded the climate crisis by overt actions that expand greenhouse gas emissions and pollution, and excluded or marginalized the influence of civil service scientists.”

8. Due Process Clause

The Fifth Amendment provides that no person shall “be deprived of life … without due process of law.”

“In violation of due process, President Trump claims power, like his immediate two predecessors, to act as prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner to kill American citizens or non-citizens alike, on or off a battlefield, whether or not engaged in hostilities, whether or not accused of crime, and whether or not posing an imminent threat of harm that would trigger a right of preemptive self-defense,” the memo reads.

9. A ppointments Clause

“President Trump has repeatedly appointed principal officers of the United States, including the National Security Advisor and Cabinet officials, who have not been confirmed by the Senate in violation of the Appointments Clause, Article II, section 2, clause 2,” the memo reads. “On a scale never practiced by prior presidents, Mr. Trump has filled as many as half of Cabinet posts with ‘Acting Secretaries’ who have never been confirmed by the Senate.”

10. S oliciting a F oreign Contribution for the 2020 Presidential Campaign and Bribery

“President Trump has endeavored to corrupt the 2020 presidential campaign by soliciting the President of Ukraine to contribute something of value to diminish the popularity of potential rival Joe Biden, i.e., a Ukrainian investigation of Mr. Biden and his son Hunter relating to potential corrupt practices of Burisma, which compensated Hunter handsomely ($50,000 per month). In so doing, Mr. Trump violated the criminal campaign finance prohibition set forth in 52 U.S.C. 30121,” Fein’s memo reads.

“President Trump solicited a bribe for himself in violation of 18 U.S.C. 201 in seeking something of personal value, i.e., discrediting Joe Biden’s 2020 presidential campaign with the help of the President of Ukraine to influence Mr. Trump’s official decision to release approximately $400 million in military and related assistance,” it adds.

11. V iolating Citizen Privacy

“Government spying on Americans ordinarily requires a warrant issued by a neutral magistrate based on probable cause to believe crime is afoot,” the memo reads. “President Trump, however, routinely violates the Fourth Amendment with suspicionless surveillance of Americans for non-criminal, foreign intelligence purposes under Executive Order 12333 and aggressive interpretations of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.”

12. S uppression of Free Speech

“President Trump is violating the First Amendment in stretching the Espionage Act to prosecute publication of leaked classified information that are instrumental to exposing government lies and deterring government wrongdoing or misadventures, including the outstanding indictment against Julian Assange for publishing information which was republished by the New York Times and The Washington Post with impunity,” the memo reads.

“The Republic is at an inflection point,” the letter to Speaker Pelosi reads. “Either the Constitution is saved by impeaching and removing its arsonist in the White House, or it is reduced to ashes by continued congressional endorsement, whether by omission or commission, of limitless executive power and the undoing of checks and balances.”

That is one reporter’s opinion.

anyways…

Almost since day one of his presidency, opponents have been looking for a reason to remove him from office. In May of 2017, Rep. Maxine Waters of California called for his impeachment. On Jan. 4 of 2019, long before the phone call to the Ukraine, newly elected Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib claimed that “we’re going to impeach the m—– f—–.”

But it appears as if the Democrats have really lowered the bar for what constitutes offenses worthy of impeachment. Using their new standards, a number of actions of President Obama and his administrators were far more serious and worthy of prosecution.

With the eagerness and multiple attempts to impeach President Trump, the Democrats have opened a window that in the future could come back to haunt them and the country.

Facts, not just opinions. And have you considered them? He’s listed 12 examples of impeachable offenses. That’s a whole lot. Which of what he wrote do you agree or disagree with?

I’m not sure. I’d need to take a closer look. Right now it’s almost 2am. Need some sleep. I’ll read more and get back to you when it’s not this late.

Certainly any President, Cogressman, Representative etc should be held accountable to the law, including Trump. Nobody should get a free pass.

This attempt to impeach was on a single charge…that his words were reckless and led to people to believe they were a call to arms against the government.

However, he wasn’t impeached.
If those leading the charge to impeach truly feel his words were reckless, then they too should be held accountable for their own words…which were shown in the video. People could have interpreted them the same as Trumps. They just got lucky they didn’t and nothing happened this time. But it’s much more than just saying their words did not lead to an insurrection. It’s about words causing people to divide. Words causing hatred. Words planting the idea for violence. That is the garbage and filth I’m talking about that is present in both the Democrat and Republican leadership.

Cool, please do. I like convos where we examine the laws themselves because then its not just a matter of shouting opinions more loudly at each other while missing each other.

Buenas noches

Can you DO it though? I remember it as well.

Yes, he was impeached twice, still incorrect on this one.

Now, he was just ‘acquitted’ by a minority of 43-57.

Aquitted is in quotes, because he wasn’t actually aquitted. That would have required a 67-33 vote. He was simply not convicted.

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I still solve for x from time to time, when I have some information but not all and want to know something specific. Calculus is something I have never used in the real world but I’m glad there are people who can and do. I use discrete mathematics fairly regularly, in a way it is part of how I look at the world. The frustrating thing about discrete logic is trying to lay out simple prepositions to discuss difficult ideas and point out contradictions, then learning the other person only knows how to shout loudly. An interesting thing about discrete logic is that it can be studied both in math and philosophy (and in my experience, if you study the math first the philosophy tests are much easier!).

The very fine people hoax:

Schoen told JI he stayed up through the night and did not finish his remarks until an hour before he delivered them to the Senate.

He only became familiar with one of his main talking points — that the Democratic impeachment managers and the media had misrepresented Trump’s comments about the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville — while preparing his speech.

“I learned preparing this thing for that day — I really learned the day before, maybe even the morning of my talk — that it’s a much longer speech. He actually affirmatively denounced white supremacists, white nationalists and all of that a couple of times during his talk,” Schoen said. Until that point, he said, he had been dissatisfied with Trump’s response to Charlottesville.

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Was that before or after the climate change hoax, or the covid hoax, or the sandy hook hoax, or the trayvon martin hoax, or the Biden victory hoax, or the …

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It’s pretty surprising anyone paying attention wouldn’t know that by now, but it shows how powerful the media can be in producing an impression.

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Well, the simple stuff, sure. And I had a couple of chances to review more advanced stuff lately :girl: :girl:

I don’t think anyone needs the media to know what Trump’s rhetoric was really about at this point.

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Right! A tell tell sign during a media pile on is they start pushing stories which later turn out to be quite false, a police officer being killed after being hit by a fire extinguisher in the capitol riots comes to mind.

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What is the endgame to all of these media critiques? To further the myth that people were out to get trump or he’s the victim of some kind of plot and wasn’t that bad after all?

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How about taking everything presented by the media with a grain of salt?

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Because I don’t look at ‘the media’. I look at individual news sites and look at individual writers. ‘The media’ can include anything from Better Homes and Gardens to Sports Illustrated to Breitbart.

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Whoa, didn’t peg you as a Better Homes and Gardens reader. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.