Not the case all the time. Women IMHO tend to seek affairs to seek that emotional connection they had once with their partner. Men IMHO tend to do it, if they have been in a relationship for awhile, because they feel neglected by their partner, on many levels.
[quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“SoulDragoN”]
Nahhhh…don’t flatter yourself…it’s far simpler. Her mate is lousy is between the sheets. 
[/quote]
Not the case all the time. Women IMHO tend to seek affairs to seek that emotional connection they had once with their partner. Men IMHO tend to do it, if they have been in a relationship for awhile, because they feel neglected by their partner, on many levels.[/quote]
Thats actually quite on.
I’m surprised.
[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“SoulDragoN”]
Nahhhh…don’t flatter yourself…it’s far simpler. Her mate is lousy is between the sheets.
[/quote]
Not the case all the time. Women IMHO tend to seek affairs to seek that emotional connection they had once with their partner. Men IMHO tend to do it, if they have been in a relationship for awhile, because they feel neglected by their partner, on many levels.[/quote]
Thats actually quite on.
I’m surprised.[/quote]
YOu forgot you tongue in cheek emoticon 
I can make a good point when one is open to it :flowers:
[quote=“trapjaw”][quote=“Namahottie”]
Relationships today are so messed IMHO because people are so concerned about what they are getting out of it, as oppose to what they are putting in it. They aren’t focused on the relationship being an extention of themselves, a life of it’s own that needs attention. ?[/quote]
Well said :bravo:
Call me old fashioned, but what ever happened to the ideal of sacrificing your own desires and wants for the good of someone you love? Sure, I’m a man, and I feel the Darwinian primal urge to sow my wild oats pretty damn often at the ripe old age of 23, but I know that to do so, even if it’s just an emotionless, connectionless bang with a random stranger, would cause great emotional harm to the woman I love. And even if she never found out, the point is that I would know. I would know that I decided that a brief moment of selfish primal release was more important than honouring a promise to be faithful to the woman I love.
I don’t like the way that society nowadays is heading towards an increasing obsession with instant gratification and the notion that anything that feels good cannot be wrong, or bad in any way, and that the idea of sacrifice is outmoded and antiquated.
Ever read Brave New World? Scarily prophetic, I think.[/quote]
Thanks for being voices of reason on here Namahottie and trapjaw. It’s disgusting to me how Western society is tumbling further and further down the hill of instant gratification and loose morals. Speaking as a man only two years older than trapjaw, I too have encountered situations where temptation beckoned to me. But my dedication to my wife, my respect for her, my love for her, have always given me the strength to resist. As trapjaw said, even if my wife would never find out, the guilt would eat away at my soul like a cancer. I sleep very well at night, next to my wife of nearly four years, knowing that I’ve always been faithful to her. There is nothing more odious to me than a man who is unfaithful to his wife, brags about it, then pathetically attempts to justify his infidelity with some pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumo about the lascivious nature of man.
Namahottie, I appreciate your practical perspective on the matter as well. Regardless of a person’s view of traditional Judeo-Christian values, the bottom line is that cheating simply does not work in the long term. I have never heard of it working for anybody, at least outside of certain religious communities. Someone asked Omni how his wife feels about his polygamous beliefs, and he has not yet responded. I can’t wait to hear what she thinks.
I don’t htink I would be capable of having a polygamous type relationship, but with that disclosure - I agree with the person who stated that as long as all parties to the relationship(s) are in the know and agree, then there is simply nothing wrong with shagging other folks. As has been pointed out, problems arise when there is “cheating.” The implication is there has been an agreement of fidelity between the parties. I tend to believe in truth and honesty - if you wanna bonk someone else - then let your partner know - if you don’t think it’ll fly, then consider how much you value you the current relationship - consider the other factors that may be at stake - kids? property (as other have pointed out)? - is it worth ending all that for this bonk? Each man/woman has to decide.
Bodo
[quote=“gao_bo_han”][quote=“trapjaw”][quote=“Namahottie”]
Relationships today are so messed IMHO because people are so concerned about what they are getting out of it, as oppose to what they are putting in it. They aren’t focused on the relationship being an extention of themselves, a life of it’s own that needs attention. ?[/quote]
Well said :bravo:
Call me old fashioned, but what ever happened to the ideal of sacrificing your own desires and wants for the good of someone you love? Sure, I’m a man, and I feel the Darwinian primal urge to sow my wild oats pretty damn often at the ripe old age of 23, but I know that to do so, even if it’s just an emotionless, connectionless bang with a random stranger, would cause great emotional harm to the woman I love. And even if she never found out, the point is that I would know. I would know that I decided that a brief moment of selfish primal release was more important than honouring a promise to be faithful to the woman I love.
I don’t like the way that society nowadays is heading towards an increasing obsession with instant gratification and the notion that anything that feels good cannot be wrong, or bad in any way, and that the idea of sacrifice is outmoded and antiquated.
Ever read Brave New World? Scarily prophetic, I think.[/quote]
Thanks for being voices of reason on here Namahottie and trapjaw. It’s disgusting to me how Western society is tumbling further and further down the hill of instant gratification and loose morals.[/quote] That may be true but as I was reading this article about relationships, the author meantioned how people used to date in the past vs how we date now, to set up his point about how to make a relationship work. The author pointed out that there were stages to a relationship and over time those stages have either been forefitted or rushed thru.
I do agree that Western society is on a slippery slope but that tends to be viewed thru as you say, Judeo-Christian perspective. I think it’s just the fact that we’ve lost patience with waiting is apart of the reason. We’ve regressed to being little children, wanting it all, now and our way.
[quote]
Namahottie, I appreciate your practical perspective on the matter as well. Regardless of a person’s view of traditional Judeo-Christian values, the bottom line is that cheating simply does not work in the long term. I have never heard of it working for anybody, at least outside of certain religious communities. Someone asked Omni how his wife feels about his polygamous beliefs, and he has not yet responded. I can’t wait to hear what she thinks.[/quote]
Thanks for the complient. 
I’ll put it this way. You don’t have to be very old to know the difference between what you can do and what you should do. What follows is that there are only two kinds of folk: ones that care about that and ones that don’t. Sometimes the ones that don’t, dress up what they do in fancy talk (sorry to use the example of Mr. Clinton here - there are others). And, to be fair, sometimes the ones that do, fail miserably. I’m dumb enough to think that there’s still an important difference in accepting a beginning premise that it’s not all about “ME.”
forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 265#495265
Well, in cases such as this, if it goes on for years, I think a person would be justified. Why condemn yourself to a lifetime of sexual starvation just because you made a bad choice when you said “I do”? The other option would be simply break-up, but what if you have kids? Maybe a return to Victorian hypocrisy isn’t such a bad idea in some cases.
I know this may sound like a radical idea to some, but I don’t see much connection between sex and morality. Sex doesn’t hurt anybody. (Well, mutually consensual sex between adults, if I have to spell it out.)
Whoever said that moral indignation is 10% moral and 90% indignation was spot on.
As for polygamy, an interesting “economic case” for it.
Umm, STD’s, AIDS, unwanted pregnancies, overpopulation, not to mention that yes a lot of women do feel used and hurt if a man does a f* and run, or does the deed without having any real interest in her outside of the bedroom. You might want to rethink that statement. Unbridled sex (even between consenting adults) can and does hurt a lot of people. That being said, in the right context, it can be a wonderful thing.
Well, most of those problems can be taken care with a bit of common sense and a condom. Our current attitudes to sex are descended from the good old days before penicillin and the pill, when sex really was a dangerous activity. So naturally sex outside of marriage was taboo in such an environment. Of course if you live a lifestyle like it’s a gay bathhouse in 1970s San Francisco, you’ll catch more than the common cold. I wasn’t advocating indiscriminate sex with any willing partner. But all that health issue, not a moral issue. To me, being immoral is doing something to hurt someone else, such as violence. In general, doing sex to another person is the opposite of hurting the other person, so it’s not generally immoral (rape and child molestation, where you’re hurting the other person, excepted).
A lot of women have this attitude - that sex has to happen in the “right context”. Most men don’t need any “context” to follow their natural desires. This is a genuine gender difference issue. It’s sad that what men and women want can so often be so different. God must have had a sadistic streak when he created the sexes.
To Quote Tina Turner:
“What’s love got to do with it?”
and cheating is even a more subjective word.
Namma, that is one of my favorite poems.
We thin gin.
Chou
[quote=“mod lang”]
A lot of women have this attitude - that sex has to happen in the “right context”. Most men don’t need any “context” to follow their natural desires. [/quote]
Sex is a natural desire for anyone. It’s not a female attitude. But Erhu said it right in her post:
Umm, STD’s, AIDS, unwanted pregnancies, overpopulation, not to mention that yes a lot of women do feel used and hurt if a man does a f* and run, or does the deed without having any real interest in her outside of the bedroom. You might want to rethink that statement. Unbridled sex (even between consenting adults) can and does hurt a lot of people. That being said, in the right context, it can be a wonderful thing.[/quote]
Exactly. :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:
I see Omni still hasn’t told us what his wife thinks about his viewpoint 
[quote=“mod lang”]http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?p=495265#495265
Well, in cases such as this, if it goes on for years, I think a person would be justified. Why condemn yourself to a lifetime of sexual starvation just because you made a bad choice when you said “I do”? The other option would be simply break-up, but what if you have kids? Maybe a return to Victorian hypocrisy isn’t such a bad idea in some cases.
I know this may sound like a radical idea to some, but I don’t see much connection between sex and morality. Sex doesn’t hurt anybody. (Well, mutually consensual sex between adults, if I have to spell it out.)
Whoever said that moral indignation is 10% moral and 90% indignation was spot on.
As for polygamy, an interesting “economic case” for it.
slate.com/id/2136453/[/quote]
mod lang,
First off, no one is saying that anybody should stay in an unhappy marriage. The point is simply that cheating is immoral. You say you don’t see the connection, but the connection is obvious. Except for bizarre situations where all parties agree to it, sleeping with somebody other than your partner is a betrayal of that person’s trust. If your partner does not want you to sleep with other people, expects that you will not, trusts that you will not, and you do anyways, then that is clearly a violation of your sacred bond. The immoraliy is in breaking this bond. My guess is that in the overwhelming majority of relationships, cheating is not acceptable to either partner, regardless of one’s natural impulses.
Think of it a different way. Imagine that you’re married, and your best friend sleeps with your wife. Would you feel that either violated your trust? Is it acceptable that your best friend sleeps with your wife simply because his natural desire was to do so? If sleeping with him was natural for your wife as well, then is that too acceptable? If either of them read through your posts on this thread they may very well think so. This example could be carried much further. What if they want to keep sleeping together, but want to remain your respective wife and best friend? Should they have to hide it, or can it simply be arranged for him to come over on certain nights? Can your other friends line up for the fun too?
Your way of thinking baffles me mod lang. I come from a world where morality is not equivalent to whatever passion happens to be moving a person at the time. To each his own I guess, and I hope you find some gal that’s willing to let you cheat on her. Do me one favor though. Will you stop attempting to speak for the entire male gender? Several times you’ve said something to the effect of “men are this way,” or “this is a gender difference”, etc. At best you speak for a minority of men. Most guys know it’s wrong to cheat on their wife. Just speak for yourself.
Well, most people claim that it’s wrong and immoral, but seeing as cheating occurs at one time or another in 90% of all relationships, there’s some major hypocrisy going on here. Everybody condemns it, but everybody practices it. You might as well be honest about it instead of indulging in sanctimonious ‘moral’ posturing. Perhaps the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy is for the best in relationships. Millions of wives in Asia practice it, consciously or unconsciously ("Honey, I’m off on another ‘business trip’ to Thailand, hope to get some ‘golfing’ in, ‘hit a few holes’ "). Since there’s absolutely nothing you can do to stop people from cheating on their partners, you might as well accept it. Try to justify it to yourself in your mind and what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her. People often say one thing and do another. Lots of people, perhaps some of the people posting in this thread, certainly lots of people on Forumosa who claim to be in happy relationships and have never cheated, are most certainly lying about it. Going by the numbers, it would be highly surprising if no one here ever cheated or was cheated on.
As for why a guy would get upset if his wife did the same thing he did to her, well duh - people are naturally selfish. What’s OK for me is not OK for you. Insofar as people often view their lovers as possessions, cheating is a property crime. It’s another rival tresspassing on your territory. Watch the Discovery Channel. People aren’t that different from animals, not when it comes to sex. Sex is pretty primal stuff.
[quote=“mod lang”]Well, most people claim that it’s wrong and immoral, but seeing as cheating occurs at one time or another in 90% of all relationships, there’s some major hypocrisy going on here. Everybody condemns it, but everybody practices it. You might as well be honest about it instead of indulging in sanctimonious ‘moral’ posturing. Perhaps the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy is for the best in relationships. Millions of wives in Asia practice it, consciously or unconsciously ("Honey, I’m off on another ‘business trip’ to Thailand, hope to get some ‘golfing’ in, ‘hit a few holes’ "). Since there’s absolutely nothing you can do to stop people from cheating on their partners, you might as well accept it. Try to justify it to yourself in your mind and what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her. People often say one thing and do another. Lots of people, perhaps some of the people posting in this thread, certainly lots of people on Forumosa who claim to be in happy relationships and have never cheated, are most certainly lying about it. Going by the numbers, it would be highly surprising if no one here ever cheated or was cheated on.
As for why a guy would get upset if his wife did the same thing he did to her, well duh - people are naturally selfish. What’s OK for me is not OK for you. Insofar as people often view their lovers as possessions, cheating is a property crime. It’s another rival tresspassing on your territory. Watch the Discovery Channel. People aren’t that different from animals, not when it comes to sex. Sex is pretty primal stuff.[/quote]
You are truly a bitter and cynical man. To say that cheating is immoral is not sanctimonious. It is a shared belief in Judeo-Christian societies that cheating is a moral wrong. By the way, let’s see these “numbers” you keeping talking about. You seem to believe that your perspective is scientific, but I question the data behind your statements. You say that cheating occurs in 90% of all relationships. Let’s see some proof.
You say, “Since there’s absolutely nothing you can do to stop people from cheating on their partners, you might as well accept it.”
Are you really this far gone? You must have had some truly bad relationships to believe this.
“Lots of people, perhaps some of the people posting in this thread, certainly lots of people on Forumosa who claim to be in happy relationships and have never cheated, are most certainly lying about it.”
Why do you think they’re lying? Have your girlfriends regularly cheated on you? Have you cheated on them? As difficult as it is for you to believe, plenty of people are perfectly happy with their one significant other, sexually and otherwise. I personally think one of the marks of a healthy relationship is when the partners realize that they no longer want to cheat. As in, it’s no longer simply a matter of controlling oneself to preserve a partner’s faith and trust, but has reached the point where sleeping with other people is no longer appealing.
You despise hypocrisy. So do I. So let me ask you the same question I asked Omni: if you are in a relationship right now, how does your partner feel about your attitude towards cheating? If you are not in a relationship, are you going to be up front and honest about this subject if you do eventually find someone?
IMHO those who particapate in cheating have different reasons/motivations for their actions. Yet, if you had any value for yourself or your partner or the relationship you are in, you wouldn’t go and sully it with such an act.
The act isn’t just about sleeping around. But about trust and intergrity. How am I to see my husband as someone who values my feelings and whom I can trust when he decides to dally around?
Like I said- if you know that being committed makes you squirm, then save yourself and the other party a headache and don’t commit.
Exactly :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:
I do think it’s kind of selfish to love only one person. I also it’s kind of selfish to limit your partner in his/her search for satsifaction.
It seems that many of us prefer keep the loved one limited/burdened to our own “exclusive definition” of relationship/love/bonding. It also seems that most of us care more of our own happiness than any thing else. Should a love relationship be “I love you so don’t hurt me” ? Should it be “I love you, you are mine and only mine”?
It sounds more like “I am so scared you might fall for another one”… “I am so scared you might love me less”… “I am so scared you might enjoy sex more with another person than me”… “I am so scared you might compare our relationship to the one you have with her/him”… “I am so scared to lose you”…
To me it just sounds so pathetic. Trying to "limit one’s desires / needs (call it the way you want) is just a sign of weakness.
BUT whatever we do, we don’t have to be mean… If you are not sure you can be faithful (in love or in sex), the most loving thing you can do to your wife/husband/gf/bf or whatever you call it, is to say thing clearly.
I do want my wife to enjoy her life and be happy. I do accept she has sex with any one she wants. I love her, I wish her to have great times (sex, or whatever she wants to do with people) How mean and selfish it will be for me to say: “sorry darling, you can not have great time, can not get high, … with anybody esle than me. Sorry, if you kind of feel frustrated, but that’s it”!
Geez, and you call it love?
What does show the nature to us?
Where marriage comes from? Where the idea of “one man one woman” comes from? Mainly comes from the needs to ensure that the kids are the real kids of the hsuband/partner.
Sorry for my ENglish, I am not an Engish native speaker.
I found this on the net:
"One in 25 fathers may not be the biological parent of the child they believe to be theirs, according to a study published today.
Its authors say governments and society have not woken up to how DNA testing and genetic profiling are lifting the lid on a “Pandora’s box” of hidden sexual behaviour or how the results might affect individuals, family relationships or public health.
Their review of estimates of so-called paternal discrepancy over more than 50 years suggests the father was not the natural parent in between 1% and 30% of cases.
The team from Liverpool John Moores University agreed that the figures, drawn from studies of men and women seeking proof of paternity, might be exaggerated because uncertainty over fatherhood is usually the reason for tests.
But other studies, such as those based on genetic health screening, might underestimate the level of mistaken fatherhood because people can refuse to participate or are excluded when paternity is in doubt.
Studies based on populations not being tested for paternity suggested a 3.7% rate, said the authors, but accurate figures were needed for Britain, where about a third of pregnancies are unplanned and one in five divorces cites infidelity by one or both partners."