Need feedback for new Classifieds system: Forumosafieds.com

About Site Feedback
41

Hi Hobart

Thanks for the feedback! I agree with most of what you wrote here (it’s just the part where you say, ‘it’s a bad idea’ that we part ways :wink:)

This is why when we were planning to move the classifieds to their own web address, we tried to think of ways to keep it as “close to” the forums as possible. This explains why you can already see deep links into the classifieds on the front page AND the sitemap of Forumosa (which appears on every forum page). And this is just the beginning.

We plan to rotate the Forumosafieds as text ads throughout the forums - or at least wherever it seems appropriate (programming willing). Before our last SNAFU, you saw examples of this already, too - but that was just a test and I want to automate that process as much as possible. Indeed, I already have the integration code to do it, but I won’t be testing that until we stabilize the server.

From what you are saying, it seems to me like you are concerned that you won’t be able to jump to and from the forums and forumosafieds. I’m wide open for suggestions on this (I hope to get ideas on how to make the forums more accessible from the forumosafieds). For example, we want to add search links in some Forumosafieds ads that will lead you easily to relevant discussions on the Forums - at the moment, the classified ads software does not allow this; and neither do the current classified forums, for that matter!

I actually consider the move to a separate website pragmatic more than anything else. It’s a judgement call, but Maoman and I believe more ad owners actually prefer the “database format” - more details, more organized, more searchable, etc. We’ve even upped the limit of characters on the description from 1,000 characters to 10,000 - and we’ll up it again if there are enough 10,000+ treatises that are posted (… I do not know how effective these would be as classifieds, however)

Last thought for now: how “far away” is the Forumosafied ads website from Forumosa in the minds of the Forumosan regular? I mean, the name Forumosafieds is nothing if not an in-joke, isn’t it?

What I am more concerned about is a non-native English speaking, non-forumosan will want to put an ad for the Forumosan community to see and will wonder, “What the heck does that word mean?!! And how do I spell it!??”

42

I echo the ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ comments. I was ecstatic when I first came across Forumosa and saw how simple and well thought out everything was. I really, really, really can’t see any benefit whatsoever from shifting the classified ads offsite. Maybe it’s not a dedicated classified ad system but the forums have worked well enough for me in the past. I’ve found apartments, bikes and all sorts, often just because I was browsing around generally. When I took a peek at the spin-off and found out a separate login was required, I thought ‘ugh’, went back to the forums and probably won’t bother re-registering unless I really need to.

I haven’t seen one post saying ‘this is a brilliant idea’; on the contrary, there are several posts claiming it to be a patently bad idea. If logins were consistent across sites then it would be upgraded to ‘tolerable’, but again, what’s the point? Doesn’t maintaining two separate-but-similar systems make twice as much work for you with no perceivable gains (and thus create more that could break)? Considering the work that you’ve no doubt put into this, what are the chances of taking on board the feedback and scrapping this project, leaving things as they were? Or, at very least, allowing us a choice between forumosafieds or the forum-based classifieds?

43

In general, I agree with Hobart and llary. I’ve yet to hear a single valid reason why the classified section needs to be moved. Classifieds are an integral part of what makes this site what it is, and are probably responsible for a lot of the lurker traffic. The new classifieds certainly look nice, though I don’t think the eye candy does much to add value to a service that for millenia has required nothing less than a space on which to write words.

Regardless, PLEASE STOP with all the additional log in, extra registration business. Let me count…Yes, there are already FOUR aspects of this site that require separate registration: Forums, Photos (forget the external site’s name), Forumosa Friends, and now, Forumosafieds.

My ideas have all fallen on deaf ears here to this point, so I’ll just back up what others have said and leave it at that.

44

I think there is always the chance that you can change our minds - this wouldn’t be much of a discussion forum if we did not keep ourselves open to the possibilities.

So far, I am unconvinced that a classified forum which did not allow replies is any better than a classfied section with a 10,000 (or more) character limit plus specific fields relevant for that category.

But don’t give up - I’m still here :sunglasses:

45

This isn’t a choice we could make. It’s a goal we are working towards. Also, 2 of the 4 ‘aspects’ you mention did not exist 3 months ago - and I do not believe we can do anything about universal logins there (Flickr and Forumosa Friends).

With regards to the Forumosafieds using Forumosa logins, I am still hopeful :slight_smile:

46

The link on the main page takes you to the system that is being discontinued - forumosafieds, I think.

In the new one there are two housing sections.

47

I’m logged in but can’t place an ad.

The ‘Ok’ button when you log in should read ‘OK’

Is there an option that is not ‘single’ but not ‘married’ for status? I’m not married, but wouldn’t want to claim that I was single in a LE or activity-partner ad.

48

Again, it’s the old adage: ain’t broke / don’t fix. I’ve had another good look around and if anything, I prefer the forum system. That’s probably just because I’m used to it but shrug. You asked for opinions and I’m sticking to it :slight_smile: For example, last time I needed an apartment in Taipei, I searched in the housing forum for ‘apartment taipei’. Lo and behold, taipei apartments a-plenty. It took me longer to figure out how to work with the new system, the layout was a little confusing and the unnecessary graphics hurt when I’m on dialup. If this was an enormous forum with tens of thousands of ads then search-by-category etc. would be useful. As it is, we’re talking about a very specialist forum with a tight-knit community that’s never likely to bear this kind of volume. As such, the current system works well and I’m not convinced that the extra hassle, both for users and maintainers, is anywhere near worth it.

To sum up: if the spin-off was stripped bare of unecessary graphics like the Original and Best Forumosa. Anything less and I think we’d actually be worse off. Bear in mind that as the guys who are putting this together, you might not be aware just how irritating it is to register, re-register, re-re-register ad nauseum. I can see the point of doing so for, say, the personal ads because that’s a completely different concept, but not for something as simple as ‘hey, room for rent, $6,000/month, who wants it?’. My main fear is not some personal inconvenience, but that traffic to the classifieds will drop and thus make it less useful. No matter what anyone thinks, with separate re-registration, this WILL happen at least to some degree.

BTW, have all the housing ads on the old forum been deleted? :frowning: I posted last week and just realised why I had no replies from a normally active forum… it would be nice to copy and paste the original ad especially since I have to re-register…

I think there is always the chance that you can change our minds - this wouldn’t be much of a discussion forum if we did not keep ourselves open to the possibilities.

So far, I am unconvinced that a classified forum which did not allow replies is any better than a classfied section with a 10,000 (or more) character limit plus specific fields relevant for that category.

But don’t give up - I’m still here :sunglasses:[/quote]

49

Classifieds more than any other forums benefit the most from being the most visible. I am not talking about some kind of google text ad or picture ad popping up. I am talking about willing browsers. Perhaps others get bored with many of the forums we frequent and take a break in other forums from time to time. Because they are right there amongst the other forums it is easy to do that and I find myself viewing the for sale forum about once a week. On another site, I wouldn’t go. I think Gus tried this once to move the classifieds off site, but I don’t believe it worked. More potential buyers are what the sellers need. More buyers are what the housing listers need, and more potential eployees is what the Job posting forum needs. Don’t castrate the classifieds. You would think it makes the most sense to leave it with the main forum where all of the traffic is. Seems more like you are trying to destroy it as I couldn’t think of a better way. The biggest asset that the classifieds have is that it gets residual readers from the forums that are bored or curious or simply running down the list. Think about it.

50

[quote=“Loretta”]The link on the main page takes you to the system that is being discontinued - forumosafieds, I think.

In the new one there are two housing sections.[/quote]
Give us a few more days yet to work this out. This is a scheduling problem - our personal schedules prevent us from finishing the move of ads from the old forumosafieds to the new one.

Once that is complete, BOTH Forumosafieds.com and Forumosafied.com will point to the same place. Actually, no one is expected to use Forumosafied.com – it was a handy URL to have as we were still developing the new system

Two Housing sections? Yeah - I posted about this at the Forumosa blog - www.forumosa.org

From my perspective something was not quite working. Ask most people (including me) where to post online about your apartment or where to find a teacher in Taiwan, and they (I) would not say “Forumosa”. We’d say, “Tealit”!!

Tealit! That oft-criticized classified ads online database, known in our own forums for their inexplicable moderation, surly manner, and not-very-good looks?!!

Yep. Them.

How many people do you know go to Tealit for their forums first? C’mon, we go for their classifieds.

Forumosafieds means to “fix” that.

It may well work for you, but I’ve posted up ads in BOTH the Forumosa classified forums for apartments and buy’n’sell within the past 6 months. There was a trickle from Forumosa, and a torrent (relatively speaking) from Tealit. That was message enough for me that Forumosa’s “classifieds” did not work well enough.

Let me tell you what was the height of it. I once posted looking for a teacher. I posted on Forumosa, because to post for a teacher on Tealit requires you to pay them. It took a few days, but candidates started to contact me. I always made it a point to ask, “Where did you see my ad?” 5 or 6 of them said, “Tealit”

Grr.

That’s how ineffective Forumosa’s classified forums were as far as I was concerned.

I agree with you :slight_smile:, I really do, and I always have ( forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … 265#376265. And when we figure out how to do this, you better believe I will not hesitate and ride on the forums user base.

But until that time, I hope this number might interest you: “60”

In the 5 days since I switched the links to the experimental Forumosafied site (2 days of which we were down) - there have been over 60 new registrations on the new Forumosafied system. Not everyone has posted ads (beats me why one would register there and NOT post something up, but I’m not complaining :idunno:), but we have collected over 80 registrations since we quietly started testing it a week and a half ago.

Imagine when we actually have our web addresses all working the way we want them to. Imagine when we start telling people who do not regularly use Forumosa. Between you and me, I can’t wait.

I haven’t deleted any housing ads in the forums. Methinks the normally active housing forum maybe losing out to the broken-but-“hai-ke-yi”-kinda-working housing database :wink:

Yes, which is why it’s already there!

And your posts have got me thinking we need to make sure that searches of the forums should ALSO include searches of the Forumosafieds (and vice versa).

Will throw on the to-do list - thanks! :notworthy:

51

[quote=“sandman”]Yet another registration process? Sod that.
[/quote]

[url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/introducing-forumosa-friends-friends-forumosa-com/18540/123 moved/merged the rest of your post to the Forumosa Friends thread[/url]

52

What is this Tealit site you are talking about? I have heard about it, but I never go there. I have been in Taiwan for 9 years and reading Forumosa aka Seque aka Oriented for several years already. Is that an English Teachers site? I don’t teach English why would I go there? I don’t want to read that site. If they have good classifieds for finding an English teacher, so be it. If they have things that English teachers need for their apartments, or apartments for English teachers. Great. Forumosa is for everyone not just English teachers but also expats, ABCs and so on. Why compete? Our site, Forumosa, has different things for sale, different jobs and so on.

53

[quote=“Goose Egg”]In the 5 days since I switched the links to the experimental Forumosafied site (2 days of which we were down) - there have been over 60 new registrations on the new Forumosafied system. Not everyone has posted ads (
beats me why one would register there and NOT post something up
, but I’m not complaining :idunno:), but we have collected over 80 registrations since we quietly started testing it a week and a half ago.[/quote]
I seem to recall that when I wanted to look at the classified ads I was directed to the registration page. Perhaps this is the reason you have so many new registrations. Methinks that your quoted figure has been proffered prematurely…

Personally, I wonder if the value added to Forumosa by the new Forumosafieds have been worth the disruption to the site. Already numbers are obviously down…

Apart from the obvious money spinners (Teaching and Personals ads), what does this change really bring to Forumosa? Having seen the disasterous integration of the new system, I wonder if the administration and technical support can cope with the possible (or projected) increase in traffic. Are there any guarantees that the recent modifications will not further degrade the Forumosa experience?

54

[quote=“Roach”]

Personally, I wonder if the value added to Forumosa by the new Forumosafieds have been worth the disruption to the site. Already numbers are obviously down…

Apart from the obvious money spinners (Teaching and Personals ads), what does this change really bring to Forumosa? Having seen the disasterous integration of the new system, I wonder if the administration and technical support can cope with the possible (or projected) increase in traffic. Are there any guarantees that the recent modifications will not further degrade the Forumosa experience?[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more. Forumosa wasn’t broke… what was there to fix?

The “free” ads down the side bothered me. I mean, they’re free, right, so why do I have to see them when I don’t want to?

Oh, and the Forumosa dating friend… adult friend finder… yuck

55

You recall wrong. None of the Forumosafied systems have ever required registration to view an ad. None. Ever.

56

I look at Tealit and I ask, “how difficult would it be to do what they do?” Recent server hiccups notwithstanding, I do not think it would be difficult to do what they do. I think it’s worth a shot.

None, because I cannot speak for your Forumosa experience.

Today, more than ever before, we have a crowd here. And every now and then, someone in the crowd gives us an idea that we want to run with – “look at that Connections thingy at TaiwanHo”… “you could kick Tealit’s ass”… “why don’t you guys have a happy hour?”… put up a wiki… make a directory…

And if I think we can make some good idea happen without too much time or effort on our part, heck, why not give it a go?

And, that’s why we go after Tealit

57

You recall wrong. None of the Forumosafied systems have ever required registration to view an ad. None. Ever.[/quote]
I beg to differ. At the time I thought it mighty odd that I had to register to view the ads (Other Jobs) but did so anyway. I’m registered and have no need to be, although it might be useful in the future. Also, I managed to register with an invalid e-mail address :s. I think I managed to rectify this today though…

58

Is that really a good reason to do anything? Or, is this just pure competetiveness? :wink:

Oriented and the 'Ho both have a similar Classifieds sections that are, with exception of the personals, pretty much dormant…

This site is morphing as I use it - very confusing for an old man who’s had a gin or twa… :slight_smile:

59

I guess it is a matter of competitiveness. Both ORIENTED and the Ho do indeed have classifieds (and both are run by personal friends of mine, it turns out) - but neither have the community that Forumosa has had, especially since Maoman took over as Administrator

What you see on the Forumosafieds today is only half the story - the other half is to put those ads in print. This is another twist that neither ORIENTED or TaiwanHo, or Tealit for that matter, have in their classifieds.

I want to see if putting Forumosa classifieds in print really will push us to a whole other level - in audience and reach.

60

I’m curious why you think having a separate classified website will immediately make you more competitive with Tealit. A site like Tealit must have reached a critical mass with its ads, beyond which point its success became self-fulfilling.

Forumosa has always had some sort of classified section, which has served its function, but always as an adjunct to the rest of the boards, the success of which came from the community section.

So, Forumosa posters, in their numbers, are responsible for your current batch of classifieds. And, Forumosa posters, if they want to go through the hassle, will register for the new site so they can place an ad.

But this still does nothing to make the new classified section more successful than it currently is. Your only hope there is to set it up so new people Googling for “Taiwan classifieds” will hit upon the new site and go there rather than Tealit.

The only thing I can figure is you want to separate the ads from this site because you know you can’t possibly charge money for people to use these boards, so you want to put the money making venture on a separate site which might attract non-Forumosans, or which could attract Forumosans who are willing to pay a fee yet don’t feel dirty or angry about it since it’s not on the main boards. Am I warm?