Bwa ha ha ha…I’m not even going to respond to this comment of yours. You are delusional. Too funny.
Keep the blinders on Stray Dog, keep on rollin’…[/quote]
Congratulations! You have entered the lowest level of intellectual debate. Keep on climbin’! :bravo: 
Define terrorism. You mean fighting back? Isn’t that what the video is asking us to do?
Your logic barometer also seems to be playing up. We were talking about bringing Islam into the 21st century. Are you circumcized, Fred?
Saddam funded terrorism. Afghanistan gave a base to al Qaeda. Saddam threatened his neighbors. Removing him was key to “reforming” the region. We are having problems but doing nothing was not such a great solution either. We are attempting other methods to crack down on Saudi Arabia. We should be doing more, but the simplistic the terrorists were Saudis misses the crucial connnection to how terrorism is used and abused throughout the Middle East. We need to clean up the whole region or it is not going to stop. We need to remove Assad and the mullahs in particular.[/quote]
Yes. Right. Great arguments, there. Are you trying to convince me … or yourself?
And I would imagine that to a great extent you are also the patsy of propaganda efforts. Islam is a religion of peace. Not all Muslims are terrorists. We need to understand the root causes. Yes, we have heard all this before but when people die, who generally is causing the deaths? why is it that we do not need to convince anyone similarly that Christianity is a religion of peace and that not all Jews are terrorists and that we must understand the root causes of whatever action is being contemplated by Buddhists?[/quote]
You do understand that your stance is identical to those ‘on the other side’, right? Your beliefs are polar.
Perhaps, to rest comfortably upon the same biased sources whose message you have already digested, accepted and now have absolute faith in? Just a thought…
[/quote]
The bias seems to be all yours - I am providing balance. right back at yer.
No. Again you are wrong. I will not make that mistake because I am able to critically think about the issue. I am afraid though that perhaps you cannot.
It’s not ‘Joe or Betty’ Muslim I have an issue with. It’s their leaders, theirs imams, their mullahs.
A bias might be one thing, but to refer to this video as propaganda in its purest form is fairly thick of you. Again, you’re the only one posting on this thread so far that thinks this negatively of what the video is attempting to shed light on.
Watch the video (Wafa Sultan) again, and pay attention this time.[/quote]
Erm … do you know which video we are talking about? There are two videos being discussed in this thread - maybe you didn’t see the first one.
It’s laughable that you slag off Islam then pretend you meant a small part of it. Good luck with making that stick. [/quote]
It is you, and only you, who suggested I slagged off all of Islam. I know what I was talking about, and have made that abundantly clear. I don’t need to pretend. Refrain from putting words or thoughts in my posts that were never made. It’s your perception, and it is skewed and plain wrong.
My comment, which you took issue with “Islam, please enlighten yourself, and join the rest of us in the 21st century” is referring to the messsage that Wafa Sultan is trying to get across in that video of her, not the first video which this thread was started about. I paraphrased and summed up what I felt her overall message was, that Islam needs to join the rest of the modern world, and that was my point. You are entitled to disagree with my opinion on this point, but don’t erroneously link my opinion to something I did not speak to.
I have not even watched the first video and have not posted in regards to it. You said you think it is wholly propaganda and has duped me, but having not even watched it, maybe you ought to figure out what is actually going on in the discussion before commenting moronically as you have and continue to do. Your error. Whoops!
It’s okay to be wrong Stray Dog.
Well, that explains your erroneous comments then.
Bwa ha ha ha…I’m not even going to respond to this comment of yours. You are delusional. Too funny.
Keep the blinders on Stray Dog, keep on rollin’…[/quote]
Congratulations! You have entered the lowest level of intellectual debate. Keep on climbin’! :bravo: [/quote]
You’re welcome. 
And thanks!
Well, that explains your erroneous comments then.[/quote]
Hello, logic factory?
Oh, abandoned.
Too bad.
Nothing erroneous about what I was talking about, Wafa Sultan, and my support for her opinion.
Keep trying!!
Stray Dog -
It appears that you have not viewed the video that is the OT of this thread.
The vid makes it clear that a small per centage of Radical Islamists are being referred to as the subject of the video.
Due to the 1 billion + who identify as Muslims this does present a large number of people - however it makes quite clear that this is still a very minor part of the total Islamic membership.
The remainder of your posts appears to be mere Chomskyist diversion, in my opinion. This is not providing ‘balance’ no matter how many times you wish to say it is.
Added: A related story -
Survey reveals Muslim views on violence, Ridwan Max Sijabat, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta
Well, that explains your erroneous comments then.[/quote]
Hello, logic factory?
Oh, abandoned.
Too bad.[/quote]
You make a mistake, not aware that there are two videos in this thread, and immediately start firing off your vitriolic missiles as a result of your misunderstanding. The irony is not lost on me.
I’m still trying to see where your statement about Islam is not meant to be a statement about Islam. If I misread ‘Islam, please enlighten yourself, and join the rest of us in the 21st century’ to mean that you had a problem with the Muslim faith, then I sincerely apologise. Maybe we lost something in translation. Dunno. But I respectfully apologize if Islam wasn’t meant to be about Islam.
What did it mean, though? 
Ah, but right and wrong are polar opposites, as are good and evil. So, even if the stances of those who hold polar opposite beliefs are similar or identical, it would, I think, still be a very good idea to distinguish and understand the two polar opposite beliefs.
No?
Ah, but right and wrong are polar opposites, as are good and evil. So, even if the stances of those who hold polar opposite beliefs are similar or identical, it would, I think, still be a very good idea to distinguish and understand the two polar opposite beliefs.
No?[/quote]
Yes and no.
[quote=“Stray Dog”]
What did it mean, though? [/quote]
A very very good question.
I for one cannot make heads or tails of anything that you have written. Even Bob does a better job of explaining his points. That is NOT a compliment.
Which explains why you failed as a dentist but proved popular in certain other stratas of society.
Which explains why you failed as a dentist but proved popular in certain other stratas of society.[/quote]
Surely, I am not popular with any strata of society? If I am, would you care to share with whom I have been so successful? haha
Which explains why you failed as a dentist but proved popular in certain other stratas of society.[/quote]
Surely, I am not popular with any strata of society? If I am, would you care to share with whom I have been so successful? haha[/quote]
For once, you win. Ha ha!
The war on terror is all about oil. End of story.
I have learned from Fred Smith and Tainan cowboy that the first thing to do is to attack the poster’s source. Certainly, this movie is produced by some biased wankers I’ve never heard of. The second thing they always do is attack the poster, directly or indirectly. Let me go with indirect this time… anyone who believes this video is objective is :loco: :wanker: 
On to more serious matters, our friends at the RIAA have recently pointed out that copyright violation is part of terrorism. (That oughta keep the war or terror going for a few extra centuries…). newstandardnews.net/content/?act … temid=1124 Citing economic and health concerns, as well as the “risk” that “the immense profit margins from intellectual property crimes” will become “a potential source for terrorist financing,” Ashcroft announced plans to increase the number of officials assigned to investigate and prosecute intellectual property theft throughout the US and in some key regions of the world. He also stressed the need to strengthen existing international treaties to help “bring IP criminals overseas to face American justice.”
I would like to point out that the movie TC has linked to is a blatant copyright violation. I have notified Google (posting copyrighted video is against the law, as well as their policies, and indeed is a terrorist act) and they will probably take the video down soon, so if you want to waste your time watching it, you’d better hurry. I’ve also brought TC’s terrorist activities to the attention of the Forumosa moderators. Though if they want to allow us to post links to copyrighted material I have several .torrent files and .ed2k links I would like to share.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
-TT posting from studentsfororwell.org/
Fred is a very modest man. With much to be modest about.
[quote=“Stray Dog”]You make a mistake, not aware that there are two videos in this thread, and immediately start firing off your vitriolic missiles as a result of your misunderstanding. The irony is not lost on me. 
I’m still trying to see where your statement about Islam is not meant to be a statement about Islam. If I misread ‘Islam, please enlighten yourself, and join the rest of us in the 21st century’ to mean that you had a problem with the Muslim faith, then I sincerely apologise. [/quote]
Do you have trouble understanding things? Man…
I was aware the thread mentioned two videos but never once referred to or was referring to the original video mentioned. No misunderstanding on my part. You assumed that.
I only commented on the 2nd video, the one with Wafa Sultan. Look at my original post. It’s clear as day. No vitriolic missile there. You read that into it. You are barking up the wrong tree Stray Dog (pardon the pun…).
My statement about Islam is a statement about Islam. You read correct!! I have a problem with the Muslim faith in that I wish they would embrace modern times and the new century. Yes! Apology accepted.
I just wish they would modernize, that’s all. Geez, you are patience trying.
[quote=“Toe Tag”]I have learned from Fred Smith and Tainan cowboy that the first thing to do is to attack the poster’s source.[/quote]Sourcing is quite revealing. As you demonstrate.[quote=“Toe Tag”] Certainly, this movie is produced by some biased wankers I’ve never heard of.[/quote]A brave admission. Their names and the names of the sources are quite clealry shown in the video. This admits on your part to not having viewed the video. Yert you continue on with your comments…how nice!.[quote=“Toe Tag”] The second thing they always do is attack the poster, directly or indirectly. Let me go with indirect this time… anyone who believes this video is objective is :loco: :wanker: [/quote]It appears you have this tactic in use long before I came across Forumosa.com. And your blantant whining for censorship when it suits your purposes, such as having no cogent reply, is laughable…As you are doing now.[quote=“Toe Tag”]On to more serious matters, our friends at the RIAA have recently pointed out that copyright violation is part of terrorism. (That oughta keep the war or terror going for a few extra centuries…). studentsfororwell.org/[/quote]Can I get a t-shirt?
Blair had this to say today. I’m sure many of you have seen it already, but I figured I would include it in our little discussion here as it does seem relevant to the topic…whether you agree with it or not.
[b]Blair: Western values must triumph over radical Islam
Global battle is for hearts and minds, prime minister says
LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) – The conflict in the Middle East, as well as others involving Muslim extremists, revolve around “modernization within Islam” and whether the Western system of values can “beat theirs,” British Prime Minister Tony Blair said in a speech Tuesday.
Speaking to the Los Angeles World Affairs Council, Blair went on to say that the struggle was between moderate, benign values versus the hatred and intolerance of fundamentalism.
“Even the issue of Israel is just part of the same wider struggle for the soul of the region,” Blair said. “If we recognize this struggle for what it truly is, we would be at least along the first steps of the path to winning it. But I fear a vast part of Western opinion is not remotely near this yet.”
He added, "Whatever the outward manifestation at any one time – in Lebanon, in Gaza, in Iraq, and add to that in Afghanistan, in Kashmir, in a host of other nations, including now some in Africa – this everywhere is a global fight about global values.
“It’s about modernization within Islam and out of it. It’s about whether our value system can be shown to be sufficiently robust, true, principled and appealing that it beats theirs.”
The strategy behind Islamist extremism, Blair said, is based "on a presumed sense of grievance that can motivate people to divide against each other. Our answer has to be a set of values strong enough to unite people with each other.
“And this is not just about security or military tactics – it is about hearts and minds. It’s about inspiring people, persuading them, showing them what our values at their best stand for. And just to state it in these terms underlines how much we have to do.”
Many Westerners wonder if the United States and Europe pay too high a price for supporting Israel, and Blair said he can understand why many Muslims condemn that alliance. But “absent from so much of the coverage is any understanding of the Israeli predicament.”
The prime minister said he “wants the war (between Israel and Hezbollah) to stop now” and that the loss of civilian life in Lebanon is “unacceptable.” But he did not back down from his support for Israel.
The Jewish state, he said, has been targeted by Hamas and Hezbollah, which have captured Israeli soldiers, provoking Israel’s response. Re-energizing the peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians will be “fundamental” to defusing the conflict.
Blair also took aim at Iran and Syria, which back Hezbollah financially.
"We need to make it clear to Syria and Iran that there is a choice: Come into the international community and play by the same rules as the rest of us, or be confronted.
“Their support of terrorism, their deliberate export of instability, their desire to see wrecked the democratic prospects in Iraq is utterly unjustifiable, dangerous and wrong. If they keep raising the stakes, they will find that they have miscalculated.”[/b]