Safety for women in Taiwan

[soghomon]

A woman will submit to her man if he exudes either of tyranny or excellence. The former is pitiful, the latter sublime.

[finley]

@CopyCat

But I did know my wife couldn’t cook or clean going into the relationship, so no problems there.

Minion says "Whaaat?!"

[nz]

@soghomon

As the laughter subsided, one of them spanked the other’s butt with great force, and they both started laughng anew. My point is not that unwanted touching should be tolerated; but rather that different cultures have different senses of propriety.

It’s that few people have the concept of respect for the personal space of others. In Taiwan, touching anyone from the shoulder down to right below the knee without explicit permission can be considered sexual assault. That law was written to protect people from being grabbed (or smacked) in what are pretty globally understood to be “private parts”. If you and your friend have decided that it’s OK to smack each other’s butts, I’m not going to say anything to you unless you try to smack my butt, at which point I will smack your hand away and tell you to respect my boundaries.

Consent is not “cultural”. It’s something that the world of men seems to think is some stupid fallout from the MeToo movement. In reality, why the heck should anyone be allowed to touch another another’s body without their consent? Only exception should be when the person’s life is clearly in danger, ie. They’re lying on the floor unconscious and someone needs to check for a pulse/breathing/start CPR. By saying it’s “cultural”, you give perpetrators an excuse to be disgusting and gaslight victims into thinking there’s nothing wrong with a very wrong situation.

[mad_masala]

Reading your second paragraph makes me question again your opinion and observations on Taiwan and in general.

[soghomon]

@nz

I’m not going to say anything to you unless you try to smack my butt, at which point I will smack your hand away and tell you to respect my boundaries.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Might not be welcomed in a context where people slap each other as a form of endearment, as in the case I described.

@nz

why the heck should anyone be allowed to touch another another’s body without their consent?

The view is an outlier by world standards. In some places, hugging or kissing is a form of greeting. In the USA, whose governing class is now famously touch-averse, it could be grounds for assault. Now consider age of consent, which is 15 years old in many places, while in others, it is 18 years old. Clearly the questions of consent and propriety are culture-bound.

[tando]

@soghomon

the case I described.

it is nothing in my culture, and I had thought it was the same in the west. I don’t do it and understand some people maybe don’t like it, but I didn’t know that it is an sexual assault in the US.

[jmee]

@nz

Consent is not “cultural”. It’s something that the world of men seems to think is some stupid fallout from the MeToo movement.

The world of men? What a stupid statement.

[the_bear]

Spoken like a true man

[nz]

At some point, please accept the reality that some “culture” actually is wrong.

Even in my parents’ generation, it was not only accepted, but expected that you will beat your children. Here in Taiwan, like the US and much of Europe, that’s no longer legal. It’s certainly better enforced in the US than in Taiwan, where teachers are perfectly aware of where the bruises and broken bones on some of their students come from, but it’s still not legal. Why? Because, after millennia of believing that beating children is a good idea, the cultures changed.

As for hugging and kissing being the norm: How many adults have come forward these past few years with stories of being molested by family members and other “trusted adults” as kids? I’m talking about in the US. These are kids who quickly came to know that their grandpa, uncle, teacher, priest, grandma, aunt, etc. touched them inappropriately, but everyone else in the family demanded that they give that person a hug and a kiss whenever they saw them. How many little kids do you see who don’t want to “kiss kiss” that are still forced to by their family and then yelled at for not complying? You require people to hug and kiss others when they don’t want to and you teach them that their body is not their’s and they do not have a say in what happens to any part of it. The culture of “hugging or kissing is a form of greeting” has already begun to change. I know Italians and Latin Americans who always ask before hugging someone. They didn’t used to, but they know that not everyone wants to be touched, even other people from Italy who grew up with hugs and kisses.

You start talking about things being “culture-bound” and you go down a wormhole you’re never getting out of. Is it “cultural” to pay your SEA caregivers slave wages and expect them to work 24/7? How about going on a shooting spree because you’re having a bad day? Where do you draw the line between “accepting and respecting culture” and saying “No, your culture is actually wrong”?

[Iaka]

From my experience, I would say be cautious as you would be in any other country. There are awful people wherever you go in the world.

With that said, it is pretty safe to walk out on street. Most people are respectful of others. As a woman, for the most part I do not get harassed by men when I am out and about in public or in private.

I will say that there seems to be a special breed of older Taiwanese men who will try to prey on women. The worst I’ve ever had it was when I saw an old man jacking off in public on his scooter and he made direct eye contact with me. I’ve been propositioned to be a hostess or even worse a “model” for a banquet. If you wear shorts or tanks, some men will openly leer at you. With them, you need to be pretty loud and firm that this not acceptable behavior.

[keoni]

@Iaka

The worst I’ve ever had it was when I saw an old man jacking off in public on his scooter and he made direct eye contact with me.

You mean you saw him drop his pants and wack his schlong while looking at you?

[Iaka]

He was already wacking his schlong when I walked by. This was not an alleyway. It was an open street next to a government building. Definitely something that I never want to see again.

[keoni]

[yyy]

@nz

Now that I’m neither at that school nor that county, I might consider taking it to the police, but I’m not sure what the statute of limitations is on it.

See Art. 80 to 85 of the Criminal Code.
https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=C0000001

If the incidents occurred long ago, see also Art. 8 to 8-2 of the Enforcement Law of the Criminal Code.
https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=C0000002

See also Art. 125 to 147 of the Civil Code.
https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=B0000001

In some jurisdictions there’s a rule that sexual crimes remain prosecutable for longer. I don’t think that exists here.

You wouldn’t want to take this on by yourself, so contact an organization that knows how to deal with it. @Icon might know of one.

[flibittygibbits]

I’m a foreign women who’s lived here for going on seven years. My personal experience regarding safety of all sorts is very positive. I can enjoy walks alone at night without feeling at all in danger, which says a lot. Obviously I’m not going to go explore dark, dingy, twisty alleys, but main streets and side streets? They’re fine. That’s not something women in my home country are able to do.

I’ve never been sexually harassed here, either, unlike in my home country.
Essentially, I live in la la land.
Except for traffic. Watch out for traffic. Don’t cross the street with your music in.
A few commenters in here are mentioning nightclubs and KTVs and places like that. Never been to one. Can’t speak for them. (Yes, I’m the rare foreigner who’s managed to avoid KTV all this time.)

[tempogain]

@flibittygibbits

I’ve never been sexually harassed here, either, unlike in my home country.
Essentially, I live in la la land.

I’m a man, but I still know what you mean.

@flibittygibbits

Except for traffic. Watch out for traffic. Don’t cross the street with your music in.

God no! Deaf people must really have a hard time.

[Andrew0409]

@tempogain

@flibittygibbits

I’ve never been sexually harassed here, either, unlike in my home country.
Essentially, I live in la la land.

I’m a man, but I still know what you mean.

@flibittygibbits

Except for traffic. Watch out for traffic. Don’t cross the street with your music in.

God no! Deaf people must really have a hard time.

I get that it’s a major concern to walk alone in the streets for women. Lots of creeps and men are just more physically strong in general.

But I also get concerned as a man. Most random violence on the streets in most countries I’ve seen are male on male. I’m always hyper aware of my surroundings, especially if I don’t know the area well. But not in Taiwan. Even traffic I’m not too bothered with. I just kind of understand the flow of traffic.

Just 2 night ago, some guy got murdered from a stabbing 10min walk from me here in the U.K. and this is considered a safe town.

[CopyCat]

@tempogain

I’m a man, but I still know what you mean.

I’m a man, and I’ve been sexually harassed here. Crazy, mentally handicapped guy came up and asked to feel my chest and proceeded to do so. Wife was right beside me. We get a good chuckle out of it sometimes.