None of the vehicles that Smelly is looking at are 4WD or even AWD, so let’s stick to those please. This isn’t a ‘benefits of 4WD’ thread.
Smelly, what is the possibility of grafting the 1.4TSi’s turbo onto the 1.2TSi motor? Except for a bit more lag it should be a decent match and a better downpipe and tune usually fixes that. I still think you’re a bit mad to do this however. As Sulavaca always says, you should buy the car you are happy with, not turn what you have into that.
[quote=“redwagon”]None of the vehicles that Smelly is looking at are 4WD or even AWD, so let’s stick to those please. This isn’t a ‘benefits of 4WD’ thread.
As Sulavaca always says, you should buy the car you are happy with, not turn what you have into that.[/quote]
Well i would just buy the 1.8tsi but skoda dont make one with DSG :fume:
They are bringing in the 140bhp diesel with 4wd haldex (same system as the new golf r) but want nearly 1.2million for it… so thats 400,000nt for a minor increase in power and 4wd, not really worth it.
The yeti is 868,000nt OTR with a longer warranty (than the jap cars in taiwan) and a few other extras that im not allowed to talk about until Skoda taiwan announce it, which means no running costs for me for a long time.
Last time i checked the 2.4 CRV is more expensive, its slower, doesnt have euro ncap 5 star rating, doesnt handle, drinks more fuel, has a shite gearbox, doesnt have the same loading space and novel folding seats, its fatter and drinks more fuel 
So spending a few tens of thousands (NT) to boost the output of this cracking little car makes sense, theres nothing on the market that offers this kind of car for less than 1.2million.
I think it makes perfect sense to me 
Seems like a bolt on solution, they both share the same integrated manifold and downpipe.
If however its expensive or doesnt fit, having a custom made manifold and turbo isnt exactly expensive or hard to do, i will be able to make a specific sized turbo as well.
[quote=“smellybumlove”]The yeti … with a longer warranty (than the jap cars in taiwan) … having a custom made manifold and turbo
I think it makes perfect sense to me
[/quote]
You do realize that a custom manifold and aftermarket turbo are going to be pretty obvious to the Skoda techs and service managers eh? After they proved themselves to be complete cocks before they had your money, do you think they are going to be nice guys and honor their powertrain warranty after you slap a bigger turbo on it and remap the thing by yourself?
this is why people have separate “daily drivers” and “track rats” 
trying to make a car do many things well makes it not do anything excellently.
[quote=“redwagon”][quote=“smellybumlove”]The yeti … with a longer warranty (than the jap cars in taiwan) … having a custom made manifold and turbo
I think it makes perfect sense to me
[/quote]
You do realize that a custom manifold and aftermarket turbo are going to be pretty obvious to the Skoda techs and service managers eh? After they proved themselves to be complete cocks before they had your money, do you think they are going to be nice guys and honor their powertrain warranty after you slap a bigger turbo on it and remap the thing by yourself? [/quote]
Im well aware of that, hence when something serious happens i will switch it back.
If i got the 1.4tsi turbo to fit or perhaps modded the stock turbo it would never have to worry about that…
[quote=“smellybumlove”]
Im well aware of that, hence when something serious happens i will switch it back.
If i got the 1.4tsi turbo to fit or perhaps modded the stock turbo it would never have to worry about that…[/quote]
Well, the techs and service managers are not completely stupid you know. When you show up for a service, and you’re bound by warranty to bring it to the dealer to get your book stamped to prove service history, they are likely making a few notes in your file about your mods and probably a sneaky photo or two for later. I don’t think you are going to put everything back to stock every time you need your oil changed. When you come back with a blown transmission or whatever and a suddenly stock car, you had better be good pals with these people.
Of course the dealer is an independent company from the importer and they can be very helpful in these matters if they so choose. The cost of a warranty claim isn’t coming out of their pocket and in fact they are going to get paid for the work, as long as the importer honors your claim. Of course the importer pays them by the book and it’s not top dollar, but in a shop that isn’t busy every little bit of work helps. It can be in their interest to turn a blind eye. The problems will come when the importer’s service writer checks your car out one day while it’s on the rack for a service or is tipped off by the dealer, for whatever reason. Then you’re screwed.
[quote=“redwagon”]
Of course the dealer is an independent company from the importer and they can be very helpful in these matters if they so choose. The cost of a warranty claim isn’t coming out of their pocket and in fact they are going to get paid for the work, as long as the importer honors your claim. Of course the importer pays them by the book and it’s not top dollar, but in a shop that isn’t busy every little bit of work helps. It can be in their interest to turn a blind eye. The problems will come when the importer’s service writer checks your car out one day while it’s on the rack for a service or is tipped off by the dealer, for whatever reason. Then you’re screwed.[/quote]
In the U.K. there were Subaru spies who would work for HQ and report any custom Scoob seen outside and it would go on file. One of our customers who had a towbar fitted lost his warranty because of this method of reporting.
I don’t know if it happens in Taiwan, but Toyota themselves refused to even fit a Toyota branded C.D. player to my car because it would void the warranty. And only because Taiwan doesn’t supply the OEM C.D. player through Toyota Taiwan.
Much of the warranty claim process is fixed by head office. I don’t know what Skodas warranty times are though. If they are realistic and even flexible as Subaru are, then the workshop doesn’t mind doing warranty claims. They make no money, but its better than twiddling thumbs. If its any less however, then they’ll find any excuse not to do it. We used to scrap brand new Hyundai cars because of stingy warranty book times. We actually always lost money working on their new cars. This was the main reason we dumped the franchise after a year too. It only lost us time and materials because of unreliable cars and stupid warranty staff, as well as crap engineering.
Subaru would literally set a team of technicians to a specific task on a row of vehicles. Average times would be calculated on repairs and replacements and those times would go in the warranty guide book.
Hyundai would employ a man with college degree and a nice tie. His name would have been Kenneth or something. Hyundai actually admitted to us that Kenneth, or whatever his name was had no experience in motor vehicles at all, but sat down one day and wrote a warranty guide book.
It was so accurate that one day I was full of embarrassment. I knew that the book gave me two and a half hours to strip a gearbox, replace the bearings and rebuild and replace. Four hours later, I was still scratching my head as for the life of me I couldn’t figure out how to retrieve a roll pin from one of the gear selector shafts. I eventually gave up and went to ask for the assistance of my service manager. I hated reporting issues to this guy as he would always love to take the piss. Well in the end it turned out that after even he gave up, called Hyundai to report our issue, Hyundai reported that it was indeed physically impossible to remove the pin and that every workshop in the country was reporting the same thing.
Bare in mind that they had somehow come up with a set warranty time for this work to be carried out, and after being questioned about how this was done after this event, they admitted to have completely made all of their times up and that they had consulted with a total of zero technicians and based on no practical testing.
I would hope that Skoda doesn’t employ anyone called Kenneth in their warranty claims department 
.
If you ask me though, I would consider it only fair to void your warranty if you have buggered around with the car in the manner you describe. Considering you like the idea of its extended warranty because you don’t want to be out of pocket if something should go wrong, then you aren’t really making much sense. You want to spend money on making your vehicle more stressed and of course less reliable. At the same time you want to gamble that your warranty will still be intact should anything go wrong.
Do you consider that fair play?
I discussed the warranty with them before, as far as they care… they dont, it all gets delt with by skoda so any mods wouldnt bother them.
This was in regards to me switching the steering wheel, stereo, custom retrim, retro fitting parts from more upmarket models etc.
Obviously a giant turbo with custom manifold is going to void this, if something went wrong like a blown up DSG transmission i would have the aftermarket turbo removed and the factory one put on.
There will be nothing else on the car, no silly intercoolers, nothing will be cut/removed, whatever i do will be a simple swap with the factory ECU used to setup the fueling, which would be of course invisible.
It wont be until after xmas and a good 3-4 months of driving it stock that any of this will come into play.
By then there will probably be a wicked OEM turbo swap supplied by some clever git in europe which will make things EVEN more straight forwards.
[quote=“smellybumlove”]I discussed the warranty with them before, as far as they care… they dont, it all gets delt with by skoda so any mods wouldnt bother them.
This was in regards to me switching the steering wheel, stereo, custom retrim, retro fitting parts from more upmarket models etc.
[/quote]
That’s not quite how it works. Skoda cannot unilaterally void your warranty as it’s a contract between the two of you. What they can do is deny you warranty repairs on systems or components that have been modified or affected by modifications done to other systems. For example you modding your powertrain should not have any bearing on a claim on a squeaky seatbelt buckle, but if you break a driveshaft from putting 350ft/lb through it… :no-no: … or if the windshield leaks because the whole body is twisted after jumping humpback bridges… :no-no:
Even if Subaru (or Mitsubishi) have you on file as an asshat driver, crazy modder and flatulent pederast they still have to at least go through the motions of assessing each and any claim that you come up with, lest you drag them to court. Mitsubishi have pulled some pretty dirty tricks in the past but then again, so have many of their customers. I think it’s a bit cheeky to mod the hell out of the car, and/or abuse it drag racing etc. and then put it back to stock and claim you were taking your grandma to church one Sunday morning when it just stopped working. 
Rule #1 of motor vehicle modding is you gotta pay to play.
What Sula says about Hyundai is right on the money. The 5-year warranty thing gained them some sales and lost them some dealers. While they got more new 1st time sales with that program they have not increased repeat business at all and a great many cars are sold on well within warranty period because the owners get sick of fighting with the dealers who don’t want to do warranty work they get paid so little for. Anyway, this isn’t the Hyundai thread either.
[quote=“redwagon”]I think it’s a bit cheeky to mod the hell out of the car, and/or abuse it drag racing etc. and then put it back to stock and claim you were taking your grandma to church one Sunday morning when it just stopped working.[/quote] Yes, but if you get away with it it’s rewarding. The dealer makes a buck and the manufacturer is still making money. Keeps people busy. It’s good for the economy.
[quote] Rule #1 of motor vehicle modding is you gotta pay to play. [/quote] That goes for everything. It costs to play. If smelly can afford to put this kind of money into a car, I’m sure he can afford to pay for repairs that are no longer under warranty. But if he can get away with making use of the warranty agreement, I say good for him. I’m not a big fan of huge corporations. If you tried to cheat your local mechanic like this it would be a different story.
[quote=“RobinTaiwan”]That goes for everything. It costs to play. If smelly can afford to put this kind of money into a car, I’m sure he can afford to pay for repairs that are no longer under warranty. But if he can get away with making use of the warranty agreement, I say good for him. I’m not a big fan of huge corporations. If you tried to cheat your local mechanic like this it would be a different story.
[/quote]
I understand the sentiment, but where do you think the money comes from? Do you think VAG prints extra money to pay for fraudulent warranty claims (let’s not beat about the bush here), or does the expense go to (1) make the cars slightly more expensive for everyone, and/or (2) come out of group profits and therefore the dividends of the shareholders? Of course these corporations are not themselves paragons of virtue and neither are their executives. I don’t see any of those bastards taking a pay cut when times are hard. The ethics argument aside, people who take the piss make it harder for those with genuine claims to get satisfaction. Try taking a car with an exhaust and rims on it to a dealer who’s been scammed by ricers before and you’ll know what I mean.
Smelly is a good guy and I’m sure he will take the moral high road if and when the time comes.
Im no drag racer, im a family guy with 2 kids and a nagging missus!.
Just trying to get a little more from the motor, around 150-200bhp will suit me fine and i cant see how thats going to stress the motor!.
Its a very simple engine with a single cam and 8vs, it has forged rods and pistons… ok they aint eagle rods or wisecos but they are strong enough to handle 1.0bar of boost for 100s of thousands of kms while being driven by a retard.
So putting a slightly bigger (and i mean slightly here, not some stupid turbo that doesnt spool till 4000rpm) turbo in place of the original is not going to upset things, especially since i will take good care of the car and just cruise about in town.
How many people have swapped the K03 for the K04 on the other TSI engines and had problems… i have known a few but its always the ones who abuse the car and run the more extreme map, everybody else gets a reliable daily driver with a little more oomph.
[quote=“redwagon”]None of the vehicles that Smelly is looking at are 4WD or even AWD, so let’s stick to those please. This isn’t a ‘benefits of 4WD’ thread.
[/quote]
OK, I didn’t realise the small-engined version of the Yeti wasn’t 4WD (I did a quick Google and there seems to be disagreement as to whether its an option) but then I’m not meant to.
Its described as a “mini SUV” “mudplugger” etc, and if its not 4WD, then its clearly marketted as a 4WD wannabe.
In that context, the half-baked aspirations of people like myself, who would quite like a 4X4 but dont really need one, (as discussed above by Mr S) are directly relevant to this vehicle, since they are the reason for its existence.
Yes, there is talk of a 4WD option. Smelly, is Taiwan getting the 4WD version or not?
all these modification / waranty talks, why not wait till Smelly “actually” get the yeti…or at least untill after he put some deposit on the car, have you btw?..
[quote=“smellybumlove”]There will be nothing else on the car, no silly intercoolers, nothing will be cut/removed, whatever I do will be a simple swap with the factory ECU used to setup the fueling, which would be of course invisible.
[/quote]
It is hard to keep this invisible from most modern factory diagnostics equipment.
I’m not sure what Skoda logging looks like, but the Porsche, BMW, Audi computers log all sorts of stuff like aggregate time at rev limiter, etc. And also do snapshot logs at specific parameter-driven instances (eg: RPM>x && speed<x), read/writes (ie: remaps), crashes, etc. This is to gather engineering data, but also so they can deny warranty for “abuse”. For example, mechanically over-revving the engine.
A buddy of mine is a long time Porsche and Audi tech (10 years now), and he’s told me that when a car comes in for big driveline issue, collecting the logs then looking for abuse is one of the first steps they do to determine whether the repair is even covered. They’ve denied guys for clutch dumps, mechanical over-revs, remapping the ECU and other stuff like this.
He said the procedure is the dealership fronts the warranty repair out of their parts inventory and payroll, then gets reimbursed by the factory. And the factory demands these logs to reimburse, likely more for engineering purposes, but also to check for validity of the warranty claim. This removes a lot of the wiggle room to short circuit the warranty process either unintentionally or on purpose, as might be the case with a rouge mechanic doing favors for a buddy.
Skoda is VW is Audi, right?
Haha. You don’t know him very well do you? 
He will have bought, modified and sold about 15 other cars (in his mind) before he ever puts his ass on the seat of his own Yeti, and there’s still about a 75% chance he will buy something completely different. ‘Completely different’ could mean anything from an electric skateboard to a Schutzenpanzerwagen. 
Haha. You don’t know him very well do you? He will have bought, modified and sold about 15 other cars (in his mind) before he ever puts his ass on the seat of his own Yeti, and there’s still about a 75% chance he will buy something completely different. ‘Completely different’ could mean anything from an electric skateboard to a Schutzenpanzerwagen. [/quote]
that’s exacly what I meant …but I always enjoy to read his “15 other modified cars in his mind” 
Yep. I remember a lot of E46 M3 being horrified to find that the ECU had recorded the last few minutes of the car’s life, like a aircraft’s black box, and also the peak data from rpm, road speed and other parameters.
I only really have experience tuning and flashing ECUs running on a few chipsets from Hitachi, used on Subaru and Mitsubishi cars. Subaru’s ‘Subaru Select Monitor’ diagnostic computer can indeed read parameters on when the ECU was last flashed and whether or not the checksums are valid. I know the VAG protocols are far more powerful than Subaru’s. None of the Subaru ECU code I have seen relates to storage of datalogs like this, though I don’t think the whole ROM of any vehicle has been defined yet and it could be hiding in the undefined portion. Next time I’m at the dealer I will ask for a play with the SSM device, unless Sula has info on this. It can also be that Taiwan dealers have diagnostic computers that are older and have less functionality than the new ones. Considering these little hand-held devices can cost over NT$1m you can understand why the dealers resist buying the upgraded ones that come out every couple of years.
Risks of discovery aside, Smelly will run serious risk of damage if he changes out the turbo or even modifies the downpipe and then the car is run on the stock map for whatever reason. If you are going back to the stock map, the hardware needs to match or you will run lean or overboost or or or.
Yep, and then there is the sneaky approach famously pioneered by Mitsubishi NA, spying on enthusiast owners who enter drag and circuit racing events, HPDEs etc. in order to deny them warranty claims later. They also look at things like premature clutch and brake wear to determine if you’ve been driving ‘abusively’.
[quote=“mabagal”]
He said the procedure is the dealership fronts the warranty repair out of their parts inventory and payroll, then gets reimbursed by the factory. And the factory demands these logs to reimburse, likely more for engineering purposes, but also to check for validity of the warranty claim.
Skoda is VW is Audi, right?[/quote]
Okay. This is where they differ from the Japanese. The Japanese brands IME have a claim amount threshold. Below this amount the dealer can document the claim themselves and submit that to the distributor for approval. Once they get that the parts are sent to them FOC and they just do the job and submit their invoice for labor (at standard rate of course) and photos etc. for the files. Above a certain $ amount the distributor will send a service manager or writer to inspect the vehicle himself before approving the repair.
[quote=“redwagon”][quote=“Ducked”]
OK, I didn’t realise the small-engined version of the Yeti wasn’t 4WD (I did a quick Google and there seems to be disagreement as to whether its an option) but then I’m not meant to.
[/quote]
Yes, there is talk of a 4WD option. Smelly, is Taiwan getting the 4WD version or not?[/quote]
I think the disagreement was my misreading (apart from a couple of Indian sites discussing the launch there, which contradict themselves every second line). As far as I can tell, the 4WD option is restricted to the larger (diesel and petrol) engine sizes.
Farmers Guardian reckons the Panda does better than the 2L diesel Yeti 4X4 off-road, where farmers might actually venture, though I’d have thought they’re both a bit cheap for British farmers