Teach English w/o a passport from 1 of 'the 7 countries'?

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
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As is the silence regarding the apparently racist thinking underlying the 7 countries policy.

Am I the only one that feels ashamed that the country I consider my home appears to have a unofficial policy that, from a global perspective, effectively discriminates between English teachers based on the color of their skin?

How else can the “7 country” policy be explained???

White native French or Africaans speakers are accepted, but dark-skinned native speakers from countries outside the 7 apparently are not.
It has already been established that citizens of many Carribean countries are native English speakers. I have also met many Indians and Pakistanis who speak English at home as their first lanuage and only use the local language to buy things in the market or communicate with taxi drivers - a bit like the way many people here use Mandarin and Taiwanese. And BTW, I also happen to know several good English teachers (some of whom have dark skin) who are not actually native speakers.

Yes, of course I know that if you have a passport issued by one of the seven countries and are dark-skinned (and thick-skinned) there is nothing to stop you working in Taiwan’s sometimes racist environment. But from a global perspective, it seems that the policy, unofficial though it may be, is effectively discriminatory.

It’s one thing for language school chains like Hess and Kojen to have such a racist policy, but quite another to have it institutionalized at national government level.

Is there any other comaparable country that has a similar policy? Does Japan? Korea? China?
Or do they take a more sensible approach and look at whether you have any English teaching qualifications and whether you did your degree at a university where the medium of instruction was English?

For the record, I have in the past devoted my time and energy in support of people who have have suffered shameful episodes of racism in this country, and I am willing to do so again. Seriously, if anyone in a position to do so wishes to challenge the ‘7 country country’ policy, PM me. I’m an English teacher, not a lawyer, but I’m willing to do what I can to assist. At the very least, I could do some research into racism in this country, or perhaps compare the policies for employing foreign English teachers in different Asian countries, or perhaps do a case study.

Some may think that I’m just one of those (relatively) “new posters who tends to hear what they want to hear”, but what I hear seems like stupid discrimination, which is not actually something I like to hear. It would be great if it turns out that I’m mistaken.

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It seems to be blatantly racist. How else can it really be explained?

As for other countries, the only example I can think of was watching a video produced by the JET programme (Japanese government’s native speaking project) in which one of the people (already in the programme) they talked to was Jamaican and quite dark-skinned. Maybe he had another passport. Maybe he didn’t. He referred to himself as Jamaican and that’s what was in their promotional video.

I’ve also heard there are quite a few Jamaicans working as English teachers in China, but I don’t know more about that.

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You aren’t going to change a thing. Congratulations on trying to take a stand, but you can’t apply western values to this country, it just doesn’t work.

[quote=“adikarmika”]
Am I the only one that feels ashamed that the country I consider my home appears to have a unofficial policy that, from a global perspective, effectively discriminates between English teachers based on the color of their skin?[/quote]

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It might explain why the CLA policies, whatever they are, are not made more explicit.

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I would say the “racist element” comes from the school more than the gov.

If a school decides to hire an African American, the CLA will not reject his application because he is black.

From what I have read by various posters, the difficulty is getting hired by the school.

Once the school hires you I am sure the CLA will not reject the application.

While I still believe there is a racist bias in the law, I think a lot of it is political as well.

306

Last year someone claiming to be a teacher from a country other than the seven did just that:

[quote]I am not from any of the 6 approved native English speaking countries. However, my country’s official language is English. I did get a full time teaching job and recently received my ARC.[/quote] forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 5#p1486045

A few posts later, someone weighed in, ridiculing the notion. forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 8#p1334748

The very next poster expressed “skepticism,” again, in a ridiculing way, but returning to seriousness, cautioned the poster against making such an irresponsible claim:

[quote] Please be careful when making such open statements that contradict current laws which have not been changed.[/quote] forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 2#p1334842

After the poster making the claim explained himself/herself further, the “skeptical” poster stated:

[quote]Darling, what we have been discussing for 3 pages here and Heaven knows how many elsewhere is that a Non_Native CANNOT work legally as an English teacher.[/quote] forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 3#p1335913

And so on.

Assuming only for the sake of argument that the poster making the claim was being accurate (since I have no way of verifying it), I have to admire that poster for keeping his/her cool after receiving the rough equivalent of correction and instruction as to the color of the poster’s eyes, poster’s mother’s given name, or something similar.

What makes you think it would be any different now?

307

Last year someone claiming to be a teacher from a country other than the seven did just that:

[quote]I am not from any of the 6 approved native English speaking countries. However, my country’s official language is English. I did get a full time teaching job and recently received my ARC.[/quote] forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 5#p1486045

A few posts later, someone weighed in, ridiculing the notion. forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 8#p1334748

The very next poster expressed “skepticism,” again, in a ridiculing way, but returning to seriousness, cautioned the poster against making such an irresponsible claim:

[quote] Please be careful when making such open statements that contradict current laws which have not been changed.[/quote] forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 2#p1334842

After the poster making the claim explained himself/herself further, the “skeptical” poster stated:

[quote]Darling, what we have been discussing for 3 pages here and Heaven knows how many elsewhere is that a Non_Native CANNOT work legally as an English teacher.[/quote] forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 2#p1334842

And so on.

Assuming only for the sake of argument that the poster making the claim was being accurate (since I have no way of verifying it), I have to admire that poster for keeping his/her cool after receiving the rough equivalent of correction and instruction as to the color of the poster’s eyes, poster’s mother’s given name, or something similar.

What makes you think it would be any different now?[/quote]

Oh well found!!! :bow: :bow: Just as the thread was starting to turn sharply into an ugly, “Taiwanese people are just racists,” love festival CJ finds some more gold. So now 3 people have said they either know of or are people who have an ARC to teach from outside of the big 7. But this too will be explained away as trolling, half truths or mistakes of bureaucratic ignorance.

I’m all for being concerned here too. So I am in full agreement. My suggestion is you have FAQ sections about some pertinent issues. “Can I teach English in Taiwan?” Answer: Well, all signs point to you needing to be from 1 of 7 (10) countries, however it is possible that…check this thread…proceed with caution…" And NO, don’t ask me to write it. :slight_smile: If the main concern is not leading people on with duff info which would encourage them to leave their home and fly to Taiwan then the owners and moderators of this site should be going out there and confirming that the information provided about working rights is not duff. No? Is it not equally irresponsible to say that they absolutely definitely can’t teach in Taiwan, when maybe they really could? Are you not screwing up just as many opportunities by shutting the gate the other way round?

We all of us are jerking our knees in this thread cos not one of us knows the full truth.

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That’s my take, too.

309

Last year someone claiming to be a teacher from a country other than the seven did just that:

[quote]I am not from any of the 6 approved native English speaking countries. However, my country’s official language is English. I did get a full time teaching job and recently received my ARC.[/quote] forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 5#p1486045

A few posts later, someone weighed in, ridiculing the notion. forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 8#p1334748

[/quote]

Hang on just a minute.

Perhaps my post was a little naughty, and for that I apologise to non-native speakers. However, I was commenting on the fact that the OP, Irina?, had suddenly disappeared and my initial, honest response to his question had become the new original post. Why do you think had irina disappeared? Why do you think posters suddenly get taken off forumosa? These questions aren’t rhetorical, by the way. I don’t know why irina was taken off, but at the time I was guessing that he was a smurf.

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@superking:

Well, I have accepted during this thread that my initial take on the “rules” was wrong and then taken the new stance that it is technically possible for people outside the 7 nations to legally gain teaching employment - but highly unlikely.

As such I shall continue to advise people outside these nations against coming to Taiwan to look for teaching work. I won’t say that they “can’t”, just that they “probably shouldn’t”. Or perhaps I should just keep my mouth shut because who gives a toss if some stranger from India blows his life savings coming to Taiwan to follow an impossible dream.

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So, how many of you would come to Taiwan to teach English, without a passport from the 7 countries mentioned?

Obviously the assumption is that you don’t have an APRC or JFRV.

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It would depend upon my other circumstances. Assume I’m not some backpacker on a gap year (or something similar) and the consequences (particularly financial) of not getting a visa and/or being caught would be fairly serious. In that case, I wouldn’t and I would advise against trying.

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[quote=“tomthorne”]Hang on just a minute.

Perhaps my post was a little naughty, and for that I apologise to non-native speakers. However, I was commenting on the fact that the OP, Irina?, had suddenly disappeared and my initial, honest response to his question had become the new original post. Why do you think had irina disappeared? Why do you think posters suddenly get taken off forumosa? These questions aren’t rhetorical, by the way. I don’t know why irina was taken off, but at the time I was guessing that he was a smurf.[/quote]

Okay, my apologies, too. I was wrong to take it as a general comment.

Edit: Whoa! Two people read my post!* Must be my new aftershave.

*superking and tomthorne

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I had a U. S. passport, but I didn’t have a clue. Is that somewhat similar?

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I had a U. S. passport, but I didn’t have a clue. Is that somewhat similar?[/quote]

True. Few people go into details about the work visa regulations before coming. Heck, I was offered so many English teaching jobs before, at least one out of five would know they had to fib it to make it stick -meaning bend the rules into the fifth dimension to get an alleged work permit- but most did not even bother, gave you the “of course I can get you a work permit!” assurances and long, long, loooong waits… until you either became enlightened and ran or got caught/were ratted out. Tales of people actually getting a work permit in spite of not being from the 7 countries in the list just feed the “hope” -delusion, I’d call it- that benefits unscrupulous agents selling people for the public school system and dodgy buxiban owners who hold your paycheck as ransom.

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[quote=“bigduke6”]So, how many of you would come to Taiwan to teach English, without a passport from the 7 countries mentioned?

Obviously the assumption is that you don’t have an APRC or JFRV.[/quote]

That is a strange question because we can only answer that as members of The Fantastical Seven of Ten and as such our decisions are biased by use having already lived in Taiwan. “Imagine you, as an Englishman, were actually born in Bermuda and had never experienced living in Taiwan, and you had read this thread and wanted to teach English in Taiwan, would you consider it to be a viable option for you, based on what you have read over the last 10 pages?” It’s too hard mate. And it will reveal nothing. We already know who stands where on this matter and really sweet sod all has changed as a result of our finger tapping.

CJ, I always read your posts! I’ve even recommended a couple of them, and I’m like Scrooge McDuck with my recommend button. :laughing: Now we need to get tomthorne to tidy up his quoting, as it looks like he wrote the exact same thing as me.

317

I’m kind of a spendthrift with mine. I usually have a reason, though, but it might not be the correct one. For example, sometimes I agree with a post, but the only response I can think of is, “Uh, yeah. Yeah!” So I just recommend it instead.

I also sometimes recommend posts that I think are funny. One time Mucha Man and Icon had a brief dialogue that sort of put me in mind of William Powell and Myrna Loy. I recommended that.

I think that once or twice I’ve recommended a nice-sized chunk of a thread because I thought it was a good thing to discuss, or informative, etc. And I’ve recommended some of the “Back in the old days” posts because I thought they were cool.

And I think sometimes it’s just my way of tipping the cyber-hat.

But I think as well that there’s a case to be made for frugality.

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[quote=“Charlie Jack”][quote=“tomthorne”]Hang on just a minute.

Perhaps my post was a little naughty, and for that I apologise to non-native speakers. However, I was commenting on the fact that the OP, Irina?, had suddenly disappeared and my initial, honest response to his question had become the new original post. Why do you think had irina disappeared? Why do you think posters suddenly get taken off forumosa? These questions aren’t rhetorical, by the way. I don’t know why irina was taken off, but at the time I was guessing that he was a smurf.[/quote]

Okay, my apologies, too. I was wrong to take it as a general comment.

Edit: Whoa! Two people read my post!* Must be my new aftershave.

*superking and tomthorne[/quote]

Sir, you do yourself a disservice. I read all of your posts under the assumption that any thoughtful individual would and should do the same.

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[quote=“superking”]

CJ, I always read your posts! I’ve even recommended a couple of them, and I’m like Scrooge McDuck with my recommend button. :laughing: Now we need to get tomthorne to tidy up his quoting, as it looks like he wrote the exact same thing as me.[/quote]

Apologies. I was in a rush to pop out and take advantage of the beer drinking opportunities afforded by the wonderful sunny weather in Taiwan right now.

How’s the weather in blighty?

320

Good point, and well said! So it’s kind of a pickle. I wish I could say I knew what to do about it, but I don’t.

I think it’s good we had/are having this discussion, though.