I don’t think that’s what he was saying …
As was your response, oh weary one!
Anyway, thanks for the chuckle - I liked the fact that you say YOU enjoy watching the drag queens and muscle boys, but don
[quote=“magnolia”]As was your response, oh weary one!
Anyway, thanks for the chuckle - I liked the fact that you say YOU enjoy
watching the drag queens and muscle boys, but don
Oh, the classic passive-aggressive approach! My favorite!
I
[quote=“Vannyel”]Could you introduce me to a nice Taiwanese guy 30-40 somethings that isn’t married? It seems the only Taiwanese guys that are willing to interact with a gwm beyond ‘bedroom antics’ are in their 20’s.
And LittleBuddhaTW, although I don’t date guys who look like they are in their teens…how can you call someone ‘illegal’ based on their youthful appearance? So it’s ok if a 15 year old looks 30? 
[/quote]
A 30 year old shouldn’t look 15, nor should a 15 year old look 30. I saw a really hot guy, who looked to be in his mid to late 20s, on the MRT a few months after I got here. I could only see him from the side and/or back depending on how he was standing. He was wearing a dark suit and white shirt. He had a nice muscular build. What seemed to be a five-o’clock shadow (which is amazing enough in TW). I was drooling…
Then as the train pulled into the station, he turned and I saw the high school name and number on his clothes and the high school bag over his shoulder. :shock: I felt like a dirty old man. 
Oh, well, he was still hot to look at. 
No way man, I want them all to myself.
Who said anything about trashing older gwms dating younger gams? I was just asking for a term for that. Besides, there are lots of 20-somethings that are hiding their sexuality, don’t want more than a one-night stand, etc. These boys that most foreigners meet at Fresh, etc., are the exception to the rule, and even then, I question many of their intentions. Don’t get me started on the glaring income discrepancies between a 20-something and your average, any age foreigner.
I’ve seen just as many patheticly married gay men in the US as I have here. I don’t think it works when you place too many criterium on what your potential mate should be. I’ve learned the dating process works best when you try to make yourself a better person, rather than make a list of requirements.
OK, Flicka…you got me! I need to remember never to ‘drink and type’ 
!
As for income discrepanies, well we have income and then we have discretionary income…and every 20-something I have met, with a job, has more discretionary income than I do…but then again maybe that’s why they don’t stick aroiund. See I too question some of the their intentions - which of course puts a strain on any relationship. :?
I have seen the same patheticly married gay men in the US too, and I didn’t date them there so why should I do so here?
[quote=“Vannyel”]I prefer one that doesn’t live at home with his parents, isn’t hiding his sexuality from everyone, isn’t dating a woman, wants more than a one night stand, and is comfortable with who he is outside a sauna…is that too much to ask?
Introduce me to ONE nice 30-40’s guy and I will take him out to dinner and see what happens.
Fair enough? 8-)[/quote]
But that is the very age group that is closeted and does live with mother.
I think it’s a little sad that gay men, in particular, can have such feelings of resentment, or even disgust for mixed age or mixed race gay couple combinations. If a big fat white older man wants to date a 25 year old cute boy, that is entirely their business, be they happy or otherwise. Large age differences are all too common in the gay community.
The gay community is extremely diverse. No doubt that adds colour to the rainbow, and it would be sad indeed if we were all supposed to strive for some ideal gay couple relationship.
I’m a 35 year old white man “married” to a 25 year old Chinese man. Some may find that disgusting. My 29 year old (divorced) father married my 19 year-old stepmother. Some may find that disgusting, too. We’ll be returning to my home country next year to start a new life, and I do hope we will not meet some of the ill-feeling that has been expressed in this forum.
I hope we aren’t dating the same guy… 
[/quote]
I don’t think so. My bf has enough trouble dealing with one crazy foreigner. He doesn’t need to be dating two. (Not that I’m calling you crazy or anything. :P).
[quote=“Closet Queen”] Large age differences are all too common in the gay community.
The gay community is extremely diverse. No doubt that adds colour to the rainbow, and it would be sad indeed if we were all supposed to strive for some ideal gay couple relationship. [/quote]
But it seems a little bit too common here, and it is always an older white guy with a younger Taiwanese. When was the last time you saw a white guy with an older Taiwanese man? So much for diversity. What do you think the deal is with that?
[quote=“Vannyel”]
I have seen the same patheticly married gay men in the US too, and I didn’t date them there so why should I do so here?[/quote]
So you can blackmail them silly, and earn some spare cash on the side.
Age differences within reason don’t bother me … my boyfriend is 5 years younger than me (although sometimes the difference in maturity seems more like ten years …), but what gets me is the old white guys with really young Taiwanese boys, obviously high schoolers (judging from their school uniforms) … I’ve seen this on a few too many occasions … or the numerous 16 or 17 year old boys who start chatting with me online and then inform me (oh so proudly) that they have 30 or 40 something year old white boyfriends. This is much different from a 30-something guy dating a 25 year old, which IMO is absolutely fine. Yes, as the saying goes it takes two to tango, but there’s also something called responsibility, not to mention legality.
LBT,
Just to play devil’s advocate for a moment -
When you say ‘within reason’ whose reason are you using? Yours as a North America, as a relatively young guy who has traveled quite a bit, as a middle-aged WASP sitting on a porch in Oklahoma, or a jaded queen living in Harlem??? Or is it an Asian viewpoint of reason?
For whatever reasons, I haven’t seen any old white guys with ‘really’ young Taiwanese boys – or if I did I didn’t assume they were a couple. But maybe I am just not hanging out in the ‘right’ places.
And surely, you are not going to tell me you believe what someone in a chatroom tells you!!!??? I can’t believe it!!??? Personally, I think I’ve been everything from a teenage hooker to a grandfather at some point on the internet (with photos to back it up!!) :shock:
And finally, what is the legal status of gays in Taiwan anyway? As for sex, in Virginia, unless they have changed the laws recently, a sexual relationship between two guys is illegal regardless of age.
I guess I feel compelled at this point to mention that I think relationships between adults and children (anyone under 21 - I’m using the accepted Western standard (excluding Alabama and other parts of the South! :? ) of adulthood) are definitely a big no-no! However, IMHO a relationship between two consenting adults, regardless of the age difference between them, is a matter for the couple and no one else.
A liitle bit too common compared to where? For sure you’ll see it in other Asian countries, to.
Listen to yourself. You sound like the gay police when you say “it seems a little bit too common”. How dare you judge others just because you are uncomfortable with a type of relationship that does not fit into your concept of a healthy gay relationship, or is outside of your personal preference.
Your expectation is unrealistic. Apologies to any Taiwanese gays on this thread, but the fact is one seldom sees handsome Taiwanese men in their 40s. I guess they just don’t age so well? And as has already been mentioned, they are mostly closeted anyway
Throughout male gay culture there has always been a fixation on the boyish youth. You can certainly see plenty of same race couples in the West in which there is a considerable age difference.
Besides, how do you know these people are couples in relationships, or dates, or just casual sex partners? Either way it is their business, unless laws are being broken.
It happens in the heterosexual community also. There are plenty of straight and fat white men here with much younger attractive Asian women on their arms, and many of these couples are married. If that’s not your thing, then fine, but it clearly works for them, and it is entirely their business.
I’m afraid this kind of judging really gets my back up. Isn’t it enough that gays have had a hard-fought struggle against the judgements of heterosexuals that they should not now have to tolerate judgements from within their own community?
I can’t help thinking that the reasoning behind such condemnation is a feeling of superiority among those making the judgement. I’m ashamed to have such people in my gay family. And if they say that they have never picked up a boy much younger than them, then they are likely a liar to boot. :x
I must agree that I think the age thing is ultimately a matter of preference, over all. To say that one guy is too old (or too young) for another, is putting your own personal or cultural standards on someone else. When I was single, I generally would go for someone who was within the 10 year younger to 5 year older range. Of course, that was once I was past 28 and the 10 years younger didn’t make them minors. 
(Though the age of 21 has been stated, the legal age of consent in most States in the US is 18. That is why pornos say the model is 18 or older, proof on file. Of course, it never made sense to me why you only had to be 18 to have sex in a video, but you had to be 21 to actually rent or buy them. Hmmmm??? Anyway, I think in some countries the age of consent is even younger. But, I digress… seriously. 
)
My first bf was 9 years younger than me (him 22 and me 31). My second bf was the same age as I was. While my bf now is 4 years younger. I think what is most important is maturity level not age. I’ve known 22-year-olds who were very mature. While I’ve met 40-year-olds who were very immature. I’d much rather date a younger, mature guy than an older, immature man.
As for there being a “more than normal” amount of older Caucasin/ younger Asian couples here in Taiwan, I’m not sure that is true. I think one reason it may seem that way is that seeing an Asian guy and a Caucasian guy together here is unusual, even for just friends. So, when you see two guys together, where one is Asian and one is Caucasian, they stand out.
I’ve had lots of Asian friends over the last few years. From talking to them, from observations of the Asian gay community in the US and here, and from knowing something about the gay community (wherever it is), I have an theory about the “phenomenon” of the older Caucasian guy/younger Asian guy.
The gay community in general is obsessed with youth. We want to be young… barring that, we want to look young. And, whether we are young, just look young, or just wish we were young, many of us (I won’t say all, 'cause I know it is not true) want to “date young.”
For an older man, whether in the US or Asia, finding young guys who don’t think that 30 (let alone 50) is old, is difficult. I mean, how often have you been in a chat room and seen “only guys my age” and they are 22, “must be under 25”, or my favorite, “no old guys, under 30 only.” Like, thanks… Bitch! 
On the other hand, many Asian cultures tend to have a greater respect for age. Therefore, for whatever reason, many Asian guys (again, I won’t say all), want older men. Therefore, older Caucasian guys provide something that the young Asian guys are looking for - maturity, experience (money??? 
), etc… And, the young Asian guys provide something that the older Caucasian guys are looking for - youth, a guy who doesn’t mind dating an older man, etc… .
Now… before anyone “screams” at me. I’m not suggesting that all older Caucasian guys only settle for young Asian guys because that is the only way they will get a young guy. I know it may sound that way. However, I know this explanation is a generalization on my part and doesn’t cover the complexity of human relationships. It is just one theory about why it may be a prevelant “phenomenon.”
[quote=“Closet Queen”]
A liitle bit too common compared to where? For sure you’ll see it in other Asian countries, to. [/quote]
Well, for the purpose of this board I said Taiwan, but we could say other Asian countries too.
[quote=“Closet Queen”]
Listen to yourself. You sound like the gay police when you say “it seems a little bit too common”. How dare you judge others just because you are uncomfortable with a type of relationship that does not fit into your concept of a healthy gay relationship, or is outside of your personal preference. [/quote]
But it does seem more common here. You really don’t see that many young white men with older Taiwanese men, or Asian men. I’m just wondering why. There’s gotta be some reason for it.
I nearly fell off my chair when I read this. Are we on the same island? I’ve dated quite a number of Taiwanese men, OUT Taiwanese men, gorgeous Taiwanese men in their 40s here, with hard chests and eye-catching buttocks. Plus, most of them even own their own cars and can afford to take you out to decent restaurants.
[quote=“Closet Queen”]
Throughout male gay culture there has always been a fixation on the boyish youth. You can certainly see plenty of same race couples in the West in which there is a considerable age difference.[/quote]
Never been into boyish youth. Yes, but you certainly see a lot more considerable age differences here.
[quote=“Closet Queen”]
Besides, how do you know these people are couples in relationships, or dates, or just casual sex partners? Either way it is their business, unless laws are being broken.[/quote]
The ones I’ve known were always in relationships. And believe me, I’ve known lots of young local, old white man couples. Sure it is their business. I am just wondering why you don’t see that many young foreign men with older Taiwanese men. Does anybody know why? My current flame says it is because older foreign men can’t find young boyfriends in their home country, but I am not sure that is entirely right. What’s the deal?
[quote=“Closet Queen”]
It happens in the heterosexual community also. There are plenty of straight and fat white men here with much younger attractive Asian women on their arms, and many of these couples are married. If that’s not your thing, then fine, but it clearly works for them, and it is entirely their business. [/quote]
Very true. It is their business. I am just asking why it is so tilted toward older white men/young Taiwanese men.
[quote=“Closet Queen”]
I’m afraid this kind of judging really gets my back up. Isn’t it enough that gays have had a hard-fought struggle against the judgements of heterosexuals that they should not now have to tolerate judgements from within their own community?[/quote]
What is wrong with you? I didn’t judge you. I wish you and yours the best of happiness. I am just wondering what the deal is with the disproportionate numbers.
Who gives a crap about judgements from heterosexuals? Heterosexuals judge eachother even.
What hard-fought struggle? Most of the struggling I’ve done here is against the judgements of other homos, not heterosexuals.
[quote=“Closet Queen”]
I can’t help thinking that the reasoning behind such condemnation is a feeling of superiority among those making the judgement. I’m ashamed to have such people in my gay family. And if they say that they have never picked up a boy much younger than them, then they are likely a liar to boot. :x[/quote]
Just because we are gay does not mean we can’t ask questions. Where do you get this family stuff? The gay community is no more family than any other community. You are ashamed to have such people in your gay ‘family’? What are you going to do? Kick me out? Throw me into the mean breeder world? For the record, the youngest I’ve picked up was five years younger. Bid deal.
P.S. I don’t know what LittleBuddhaTW is talking about. I have heard one case where a foreigner picked up a 16 year old here, and even then the foreigner freaked out when he found out he was 16.
Flicka, you have answered your own question, though some might question your answer.
Regarding, the out-men in their 40
A couple quick examples before I head off to class … my ex-boyfriend’s friend dated a 38 year old Dutch guy when he was 16. Another ex-boyfriend (also Taiwanese) dated a 30 year old French guy when he was 16. And finally, on Monday when I was walking around Hsimenting with one of my friends, we saw a gray-haired foreign guy walking around with a Taiwanese high school boy (again judging from his high school uniform … actually an art vocational school) clutching on to said foreigner’s arm with his head resting lightly on his shoulder. Sure, they could be “just friends”, though … Maybe I’m judgmental, so shoot me … but I think the line needs to be drawn somewhere.
Anyway, Flicka, I’m not arguing with you … I agree with most of what you’ve been saying above.
Editors at Next magazine, are you reading this? These foreign men aren’t breaking the law, although I am sure the Taiwanese guys’ parents would flip out big time. I think the age of consent here is 16, in line with many European countries.
LittleBuddhaTW you said…
… but I think the line needs to be drawn somewhere.
And I think the line is being drawn…just not where you want it to be… 
I agree with QuietMountain…and would add that with the average Western obsession with youth, you would be hard pressed to find a younger GWM dating an older GAM.