I hope this kind of thing infuriates Americans enough to make changes in their own lifestyle and in their leadership. This is a walking poster for why we need Medicaid for all.
Americans value individual liberty from the state. I don’t see it changing anything soon. It is what America the country it is. You can argue it’s irrational and scream what about this kid. But people will still value the ability to peruse their own healthcare over the idea guaranteeing no one is in need.
Both ideas have merit in how a society should be. Although I prefer the ability to pick the best doctors and the best plans when it comes down to it without the state interfering. I wouldn’t want to be in a situation like Italy where it’s decided by doctors how and who should be treated over another.
Think it about it like this.
Let’s take Taiwan’s model of high efficiency and low cost. Do you truely believe Americans would want this system overall? They would be ok with seeing a doctor for 5 min with them not giving a lot of individual attention? Do you think American doctors would be fine with seeing hundreds of patients in a single rotation? Do you think Americans would be fine not being able to choose the drugs they want and a bunch of drugs not even available like in Taiwan. Search this forum, you’ll find many threads on Americans frustrated they can’t get the drug they were on in the US even out of pocket.
Let’s go to the other side of the spectrum. U.K or Italy. Doctors give more individual attention for sure. But good luck getting to see one unless you’re dying or just need a simple checkup for the cold. If my fiancées uncle wasn’t the head of a department, I would not have been able to see the head neurologist right away and received a bed right away. Ii could have potentially died waiting because my potassium levels were dangerously Low. It took over a month just to see a specialist for a shoulder impingement issue.
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There is nothing at odds with having National Health Care and individual liberty. Taiwan manages, so can the US. Americans want health care they can afford first and foremost.
Edit after your addition: Yes, Americans would choose TW’s health care in .00001 seconds over the US mess if they knew how much better it was. Especially now.
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Sure there is. Read the above post I edited.
Do a quick search of how many Americans come here and can’t find the drug they were on. Because Taiwan wasn’t able to come to an agreement with the pharmaceutical company to even buy out of pocket. And are all drugs covered on NHI? Nope. You got a lot of generics and older generation drugs in Taiwan.
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No system of health care is perfect but one that is unaffordable is useless.
The US systems problem is that it incentives being unemployed. You’re more likely to get Medicaid that way, which is the best health care around compared what you can get under ACA for less hassle. If congressmen can have it, then everyone should be able to. The 3 trillion we wasted on this trade war, wall, all the bullshit, it could have paid for it already.
The litany of reasons why we can’t make the changes we need to make is running out. The traditional metrics of economic thought are gone. We are in recession survival mode. The US economy is about to take a real dive, get ready.
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Well, at least you’re walking back on it’s not at odds with individual freedom to its not perfect. You can disagree with it, I’m just pointing it out.
My purpose is not to convince you, you seem to have dug in on your position of needing NHI.
I don’t think Americans are willing to accept the idea of not being able to access the newest and latest drugs and treatment method because their government hasn’t made a deal.
I disagree. I believe you are conflating free market economics with the idea of personal freedom. The ideology of radical private markets is why this mess is going on now. There is a reason every country besides the US uses NHI, and the US health care system is a dismal failure at the moment. There is nothing resembling freedom about it whatsoever.
Answer me this: If you were not wealthy and living paycheck to paycheck, where would you want to be right now. US or TW. You are uninsured.
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I’m not talking about individual liberty on other issues. I think it’s disingenuous to try to say Taiwan is a free place and yet has NHI. We are talking about if NHI is at odds with individual freedom. It is. Not to mention you must pay into it or be penalized.
Now you’re really digging for a defense. This is a country that went with the motto of give me liberty or give me death. New Hampshire’s state motto is live free or die. I think Americans take this freedom thing very seriously.
Well, that’s really your opinion. My purpose isn’t really to say which is better as I’ve said. I’m just saying Americans have certain values of how they want to live their life. I don’t think they would like Taiwan’s system at the end.
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I disagree. I believe you are conflating free market economics with the idea of personal freedom. The ideology of radical private markets is why this mess is going on now. There is a reason every country besides the US uses NHI, and the US health care system is a dismal failure at the moment. There is nothing resembling freedom about it whatsoever.
Answer me this: If you were not wealthy and living paycheck to paycheck, where would you want to be right now. US or TW. You are uninsured.
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Nope.
This is not about my opinion. I’ve not said which is better or worse. You keep trying to project your opinions on the topic. I’m just saying the facts. NHI does limit individual freedom, something you keep trying to twist in knots trying to explain away and walk back. Americans don’t like that.
I don’t care for your opinion on how NHI is better because you’ve said that a million times. I’m not here to convince you.
Its actually getting annoying that you need to keep saying how Americans need to wake up and think the way you do on every thread. We get it. You’re not adding anything new but your opinion on how it fits you better over and over again.
Do you have an actual empirical means of calculating which system is better with all the different variables that we can see?
My a lot of metrics, Taiwan does really poorly. And doctors here go through “hell” as doctors described it.
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You’ve done nothing to explain why, just assumed it.
Americans are getting turned away in hospitals because of the joys of the private insurance system only America uses because it’s awful.
That’s good, because you’re not convincing me.
I asked you a question: Which one would you choose, TW or the US. You are uninsured.
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I’ve literally covered it over and over again. Under Taiwan’s System, many drugs are not even available. New drugs are slow to come. New treatment and surgical methods are slow to come as the government work to come to agreements with pharmaceutical companies.
And not to mention, you must pay in or be penalized.
How are you not able to comprehend this?
NHI isn’t a one size fits all as the solution. I think Taiwan’s system works great for Taiwanese in terms of lifestyle and values. I don’t think it works for Americans and their value.
Nor is it a guaranteed to get Taiwan’s system. I’m sure italy wishes they had it closer to Taiwan’s system as well right now.
You’re clearly dug in. So I’m done with this. Especially since you managed to either lie and be disingenuous or are unable to read for saying I’m not explained how it is at odds with personal freedom. I made at least 3 posts on it. 4 posts now.
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You refuse to answer my question, and that is all the evidence I need.
Good day, sir.
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I don’t need to answer a loaded question of you choosing my circumstances lol. That is the exact opposite of personal freedom and choice. Something you are unable to comprehend apparently.
I love the US because it is a country that believes every person is the captain of their destiny. The fact is, there are some circumstances I would want to be in Taiwan and many more I prefer to be in the US. It’s my choice on how I reach that decision. And my life to make decisions on where I am in life.
I asked you to choose where you would rather be if you were uninsured. Obviously you are not prepared to answer this. We’d all prefer to be in TW when it’s suitable and in the US when it’s suitable if we had money. That wasn’t the question.
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Why asked a loaded question that obvious. I would choose Depending on what it is. For example, I knew a woman who had thyroid cancer. Had to be on T3 for medication which is a synthetic thyroid hormone. She actually contacted me through Forumosa because she saw my posts about getting medication here.
The thing is, Taiwan does not have T3. Its not only not insured, you can’t even buy it. T3 is a common medicine all around the world that’s cheaply produced. Taiwan only has T4, a less potent version of synthetic thyroid hormone because the government says it works just as good and is safer. Which is true on paper.
What is not true is that it works just as well on everyone. She is an outlier and functions on T3. She had major issues, lost a lot of weight, sleep problems, low energy, depressions and suicidal thoughts.
Last I heard, she returned to the US.
So yes, This is a clear case of how Taiwan’s system limits your personal freedom on treatment.
You do realize there are 3 million unemployment cases right now and people are losing their shirts due to factors entirely beyond their control, right? How could you say this?
If you have rich parents. It is very far down the list on social mobility rankings. At this moment, I would put it as one of the very last places on earth to make money, unless you started out with money to start with.
The majority of Americans are poor, unemployed, and scared as hell that they have no health coverage. This is obvious, beyond obvious, and the question I asked is very basic: Where would you rather be if you were uninsured. You know what the answer is, and why you want to dismiss that question as loaded.
The US healthcare system is failed. People are dying because they have on coverage, turned away from hospitals. You don’t seem to grasp this at all.
Blinders. Bad ones.
Gotta go
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Is not having medical coverage a choice or some people just do not have the ability to get it? Financial status is up to you. America is still the easiest place for financial success. After living in a few countries, I believe it even more.
I think Taiwan’s system is great while still has various issues.
I also think the US is great too with various issues.
I just don’t think, the majority of Americans would want the situation I posted above. Do a quick search, I’m almost certain there dozens of people throughout the years with the same issue.
You do realize there are 3 million unemployment cases right now and people are losing their shirts due to factors entirely beyond their control, right? How could you say this?
If you have rich parents. It is very far down the list on social mobility rankings. At this moment, I would put it as one of the very last places on earth to make money, unless you started out with money to start with.
The majority of Americans are poor, unemployed, and scared as hell that they have no health coverage. This is obvious, beyond obvious, and the question I asked is very basic: Where would you rather be if you were uninsured. You know what the answer is, and why you want to dismiss that question as loaded.
The US healthcare system is failed. People are dying because they have no coverage, turned away from hospitals. You don’t seem to grasp this at all.
Blinders. Bad ones.
Gotta go
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Is it really out of their control to save money for emergency situations out of their control?
Not really. I grew up with a lot of lower middle class and lower class 2nd gen and 1st gen immigrants. Almost all of them have moved up because they worked their asses off. Those Indian kids native born kids made fun of for being stereotypical gas station owners, have like 10 gas stations (probably more now since it’s been a few years I’ve talked to them) and are rich.
People come flooding into the US at record numbers.
It’s the most egalitarian place I’ve been to after living in 6 countries.