Ahh … no. If one of our children goes too far with one of our dogs then it’s my job to correct their behaviour not my dogs.[/quote]
Yeah the dog should just take the poke in the eyes and come and talk to you about it.
Oh, that’s right it’s an animal. Not that a person would make a mistake in their reaction if a child came and stuck a stick in their eye. I would just say Ouch don’t do that its naughty. I am going to tell your dad now.
[quote=“Ozzy”] ot sure why society have to be responsible for someone else child’s stupidity. [/quote] I guess that is my point, why should people have to pay dreadful consequences because some “like the look” of dogs that are bred for viciousness.
“Its like a weapon…”
…and you’re still not sure what the point is?
[quote=“Ozzy”]All large breeds should be destroyed?[/quote] I think that is a little extreme, but I would certainly consider curbing breeding (I know , a lot of it is illegal, and thus difficult to regulate) or at least choose not to buy dogs (and thus not support the breeding industry).
There are plenty of great dogs that are available for adoption - cheaper than free, when you consider that they often come fixed.
Precisely. Now you’re starting to get the picture. Kids will be kids and dogs will be dogs, though. So if you don’t trust your dog to refrain from attacking a daft kid, you keep the dog tightly controlled or you resign yourself to lawsuits and having the dog taken away and destroyed, and rightly so, IMO.
Maybe Maoman can post the picture of his daughter sitting with his large dog Gustav. She has her finger pretty much poking the dog’s left eye. Mind you, Maoman’s dog is reputable for being a great family dog and safe around young children, and he is very well trained and cared for on top of that.
This said, I would have no problem training any dog from the time it’s a puppy and having young kids around once I am confident that the dog is not malicious. Unless a dog is from breeders who are highly likely breeding aggressiveness. Expecting to train such a dog to be around children is just plain stupid. Way too unpredictable. In addition to that, expecting kids to be responsible around such animals to be safe is even more stupid.
Besides, the cost of exporting a dog to Australia from here is roughly 100k. You can probably buy two of these dogs in Australia for the same price from recognized and far more reputable breeders who breed pets and not fighters.
marboulette
So are you saying only dogs that were bred for fighting or all dogs that could be dangerous? a weight limit maybe? what weight should that be?
“Its like a weapon…” [/quote]
I thought the point is clear. Use common sense. Would you argue with some guy on the street clutching a pair of scissors? Maybe we should ban scissors.
Like I said earlier be specific of guidelines for the dogs that are aloud to be bred and inform everyone what dog they are aloud to have under Kages rules.
Obviously only adopt the ones that are within the guidelines you think should be set. Maybe under 10 pounds?
Precisely. Now you’re starting to get the picture. Kids will be kids and dogs will be dogs, though. So if you don’t trust your dog to refrain from attacking a daft kid, you keep the dog tightly controlled or you resign yourself to lawsuits and having the dog taken away and destroyed, and rightly so, IMO.[/quote]
I disagree. It would depend on the circumstance and severity of the dogs attack to the severity of the the child’s actions. Also where the incident took place. Your child comes in my yard. Not my dogs fault. My dog in your yard , the dogs fault. On the street if the kid pokes the dog in the eye with a stick and it snaps and on his hand or leg. the kid deserves it. If the kid yanks at its ear and the dog mauls the kid severely the dog would be at fault. Obviously this it made out in a black and white statement. But I guess my point is clear. I don’t believe the human race can treat animals anyway they please and the animal can not react accordingly because it doesn’t rank high enough on the evolutionary scale in your opinion.
Like I said. How would you react if a kid came up and poked a stick in your eye? would it definitely be a non violent reaction or could you possibly overact with a back hand or slap or kick as an instant reaction to the poke.
No, YOU would be at fault, as a dog who can maul shouldn’t be on the street or in any place where a child can approach. If your dog is in someone’s yard, that’s your fault.
No, maybe YOU do. You never educated the child.
I agree with the essence of your posts completely, but not these parts above, as I’ve seen so often where people want to blame a dog for crossing a boundary that was never shown to them or for just being a dog with the temperament that was bred into it.
Question for Sean: from your experience with rescued dogs, is it possible that a dog, who had traumatic experiences in his early life, but was rescued and trained afterwards, “snaps” one day and becomes aggressive for no reason?
We had a dog from the street once who was well behaved for 6 years or so, and one day, out of the blue sky, he sees a bicyclist (our neighbor), charges and brings the guy down biting his leg for no obvious reason. Now, I was too little at that time to figure things out, but the veterinarian said something like the dog could not be helped “either cage him or put him down”.
Mei-mei and Baloo. This is within 5 minutes of their first meeting. In the first two minutes she shoved her finger up his bum to the third knuckle. He said “hmph!” and covered her with drool. She then bit his ear. Hard. He said “hmph!” and covered her in drool again.
If your dog cannot do this or similar, then it’s YOUR job to keep it the hell away from kids.
Ozzy, you seem to think that a dog in its yard is somehow “out of bounds.” Thank christ most courts, judges and members of the public don’t share your sentiments.
And yeah, I also come from a family of dog breeders – me and my old man raised and trained gundogs, my sister’s a vet and raises and trains greyhounds and whippets, my brother-in-law raises and trains competition sled dogs, and I have had a fair bit of experience with training lurchers to course hares. NONE of those dogs, apart from a very few exceptions, were EVER in a position to interact with humans other than in a working situation. It was common sense then, and its common sense now.
We’ve obviously trained Gustav, but we’ve been training our daughter, too. We always remind her how much she loves Gustav and how it’s important to be gentle with dogs. She seems to have learned well - She’s also gentle with strange dogs! 
[quote=“sandman”]
Mei-mei and Baloo. This is within 5 minutes of their first meeting. In the first two minutes she shoved her finger up his bum to the third knuckle. He said “hmph!” and covered her with drool. She then bit his ear. Hard. He said “hmph!” and covered her in drool again.
If your dog cannot do this or similar, then it’s YOUR job to keep it the hell away from kids.
Ozzy, you seem to think that a dog in its yard is somehow “out of bounds.” Thank christ most courts, judges and members of the public don’t share your sentiments.
And yeah, I also come from a family of dog breeders – me and my old man raised and trained gundogs, my sister’s a vet and raises and trains greyhounds and whippets, my brother-in-law raises and trains competition sled dogs, and I have had a fair bit of experience with training lurchers to course hares. NONE of those dogs, apart from a very few exceptions, were EVER in a position to interact with humans other than in a working situation. It was common sense then, and its common sense now.[/quote]
doglaw.hugpug.com/doglaw_082.html
The owner may be able to avoid liability if the injured person:
* provoked the injury from the dog
* knowingly took the risk of being injured by the dog
* was trespassing
* was breaking the law, or
* was unreasonably careless, and that carelessness contributed to the injury.
Read for more details.
That’s an American site. I have no idea of the laws in America – they’re practically cavemen over there, for heaven’s sakes,
Ozzy, I think what most people are worried about is that you would be supporting a market (if you decide to buy a Tosa Inu from a Japanese breeder) which supports dog fighting. A cruel and vicious practice as we all know.
tw.youtube.com/watch?v=3tB2nzjmh2w
tw.youtube.com/watch?v=aYl5xtjQEjw
Good luck in finding the right dog for you and your family. I am sure you will make the right decision.
[quote=“havilina”]Ozzy, I think what most people are worried about is that you would be supporting a market (if you decide to buy a Tosa Inu from a Japanese breeder) which supports dog fighting. A cruel and vicious practice as we all know.
tw.youtube.com/watch?v=3tB2nzjmh2w
tw.youtube.com/watch?v=aYl5xtjQEjw
Good luck in finding the right dog for you and your family. I am sure you will make the right decision.[/quote]
I hope then that all these concerned people eat nothing but vegetables and eggs that are from free range farms. Otherwise you are more than likely supporting animal cruelty. I suppose fish would have to be included? Then again how many animals are culled or hunted because they cause a problem for crops? hmm maybe vegetarians are supporting animal cruelty as well when you really look into it.
So making assumptions and throwing accusations is not the right way to respond. Maybe if someone asks about a good steak restaurant in Taipei people should ask whether the person supports animal cruelty in slaughter houses.
So… Supporting dogfighting equals to eating chicken? Is that what you are saying?
marboulette
[quote=“marboulette”]So… Supporting dogfighting equals to eating chicken? Is that what you are saying?
marboulette[/quote]
No supporting chicken cruelty equals supporting dog cruelty.
If someone wants to accuse someone of supporting the dogfighting industry because they buy a breed that is used in the activity is no better than accusing someone of buy meat and saying they support the cruelty in slaughter houses.
Well fair enough, except one requires someone to change diet and culinary habits that goes back thousands of years when slaughter houses did not even exist (although the chicken still had to be slaughtered), and the other simply requires a sensible decision not to support dogfighting. In addition to that, the one is for means of consumption and survival while the other is strictly twisted entertainment.
I think there’s a big difference as far as morality is concerned, but I agree, both practice are questionable. Besides, if you think it equals what goes on in slaughter houses, then why not say “no” since all you’re required to do is to make that simple decision.
marboulette
[quote=“marboulette”]Well fair enough, except one requires someone to change diet and culinary habits that goes back thousands of years when slaughter houses did not even exist (although the chicken still had to be slaughtered), and the other simply requires a sensible decision not to support dogfighting. In addition to that, the one is for means of consumption and survival while the other is strictly twisted entertainment.
I think there’s a big difference as far as morality is concerned, but I agree, both practice are questionable. Besides, if you think it equals what goes on in slaughter houses, then why not say “no” since all you’re required to do is to make that simple decision.
marboulette[/quote]
Me deciding to change the type of dog I prefer to have is not that much different to you changing your preference of meal. There are plenty of other sources of food available as there are many different breeds. But I like big dogs. Plus I like the characteristics of the Tosa. So at least I can choose to buy from a breeder in which I consider to be of good moral caliber and treats their dogs well. Can you say the same for where you meat comes from? do you bother? I doubt it. Not pointing fingers or even criticizing you for it. Just pointing out that people should not throw stones. Also not to make accusations without cause. All I said is that I would like a Tosa Inu. That does not mean the breeder has to be fighting their dogs. I lived in Japan and even there you can find owners/breeders that do not fight their dogs. It is harder to find though since it is legal.
Huh? I thought you said earlier that you wanted to find one of these dogs here in Taiwan.
Huh? I thought you said earlier that you wanted to find one of these dogs here in Taiwan.[/quote]
You wouldn’t be making accusations,assumptions and statements without good knowledge would you
Do you know all the Tosa breeders? If so how many?I am guessing non from your past record on this thread :no-no: