I know you served in Vietnam and I’m sorry to belabor the point, but once I get a clear answer I’ll shut up.
Were you actually present during combat?
I understand that many who served in Vietnam never actually saw combat (a friend of mine back home, for instance).
To clarify my point about technology, I’m not suggesting that it alone will prevent “friendly fire” in such instances as a fire fight between ground troops. However the most egregious acts of “friendly fire” that have been reported in the media are those where American pilots swoop down on and destroy allied ground units. In each case, the pilot(s) were not themselves under fire and surely had time to identify their targets.
I fail to see how multi-million dollar aircraft with sophisticated technology cannot identify hostile from friendly targets. Surely the problem must lie elsewhere, such as pilots not following correct procedures. Nor do I believe -as suggested by Blueface - that I have to have “been in combat” to question this paradox.
[quote]I know you served in Vietnam and I’m sorry to belabor the point, but once I get a clear answer I’ll shut up.
Were you actually present during combat? [/quote]
The man was in the military in Vietnam. Enough said.
Blueface referred to Requiem: By The Photographers Who Died
In Vietnam and Indochina. They also have a website with many photos by these brave souls right here. Haunting stuff.
http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue9711/req1.htm
Hex:
The frequency.
HG
Not enough said. If he keeps berating people because they never saw combat, I simply want to know if he did. Simple enough. After all, if he hasn’t then he’s being hypocritical and dishonest. If he has, then all he has to do is say, “yes” and as I said I’ll shut up.
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”][quote]I know you served in Vietnam and I’m sorry to belabor the point, but once I get a clear answer I’ll shut up.
Were you actually present during combat? [/quote]
The man was in the military in Vietnam. Enough said.
[/quote]
That’s right, Mother Theresa, just shut up because Huang Guang Chen has spoken.
Being “in the military in Vietnam” says little. There are huge differences in the experiences of those who serve on the front lines, those in supply, etc. One of the best authors on the subject, albeit on the differences in World War Two, is Paul Fussell (Thank God for the Atomic Bomb). But let’s say that Blueface was “actually present during combat.” Would that legitimize his attitude that the opinions of those people, expressed in a public forum, who have not been present during combat, mean nothing? Or “berating” other posters, as Mother Therasa put it?
Nope.
Mother T I understand your point but you’re really walking a tight line here and doing so from the safety of an online character, in effect. Leave it alone. The guy made reference to a friend being killed while he was there. Enough.
I was in the military all so briefly and while I most certainly did not see any combat I can tell you that the military mind fuck is phenomenal. In my training they put a rumour around the camp that there was some shit or other going to happen and the next thing NCOs are talking about us all getting promoted and being put in charge of training schmucks and heading off to where to what? I no longer recall. In hindsight it was totally ludicrous but in that environment where you have no access to outside news or contact and you are deliberately sleep deprived you just tend to believe what you’re told. I can only shudder at the very thought of being in a military that is actually involved in a war, let alone being in a country where the borders of war are extremely ill defined. I would hesitate to say that this renders the whole “saw action/didn’t” divide rather pointless. Seriously.
I wish to again state that my purpose in this thread was not to have a who’s dick’s bigger than who’s but rather to explore the reasons why there seems to be an inordinate amount of “collateral damage” (as offensive as that term is) happening in Iraq. I suspect, as I’ve stated, that I think it has something to do with the access to ordinance and the seeming lack of repercussion to using it relatively indiscriminately. For me it seems to be in part an economic issue.
I think it an horrendous tragedy. The question is: (a) what’s the problem and (b) how do they get it right?
HG
I have stated it before. Yes, I saw combat. I was in the 23rd Infantry Division (Americal), the same division as Lt Calley of My Lai fame. Does that make you feel better?
And, where were you during the war?
I just asked a simple question. Thank you for your answer. I was in elementary school. Does that make you feel better?
I have stated it before. Yes, I saw combat. I was in the 23rd Infantry Division (Americal), the same division as Lt Calley of My Lai fame. Does that make you feel better?
And, where were you during the war?[/quote]
Yeah, Mother Theresa, where were you? (The ironic thing is that I would guess a sizeable number of the posters on forumosa.com weren’t even BORN until after the Vietnam War, which means they must face the wrath of Blueface simply due to their time of birth.)
Honestly, Blueface, if you have such a personal link to the war and feel compelled to insult people here who want to talk about military matters, why even bother reading this thread? If it’s so painful, why not just stay away from the discussion? These are sincere questions.
Gotta go now. My wife’s water finally broke!!!
Good luck.
Ah, that would explain it. Pre-partum stress. 
Congratulations Dad. 
Nothing that was posted I hope!
All the best.
HG
Congratulations! A fiery Leo in the year of the Black Sheep! You’re well and truly done for now! 
I have stated it before. Yes, I saw combat. I was in the 23rd Infantry Division (Americal), the same division as Lt Calley of My Lai fame. Does that make you feel better?
And, where were you during the war?[/quote]
Maybe the question is as simple as this: were you a grunt or a supply clerk? A cook or a mechanic? A medic or a parachute rigger? As we all know, some jobs are more dangerous than others.
[quote]blueface666 wrote:
Gotta go now. My wife’s water finally broke!!! [/quote]
Good time to leave the man in peace.
HG
I will never put ketchup on a hotdog.
[quote=“HakkaSonic”][quote=“Durins Bane”]This gets my vote for “silly post of the day”.
Listen folks, this stuff is all very simple…mistakes happen in combat. For as long as people have been fighting, there have been fuck-ups in combat. People being in the wrong place at the wrong time, people shooting at the wrong targets, blah, blah, blah. Usually it is just bad luck, but other facters can be involved (fatique, visibility, nerves, etc.). Too many examples in history (though Stonewall Jackson being shot by soldiers of a South Carolinan regiment on that dark Virginian lane is a great example) Don’t even try placing blame or finding fault with what happened…it just happened. It has happened before and it will happen again.[/quote]
And yours gets the “Vapid Post of the Day.” Of course, mistakes happen. The point is to figure how to minimize the likelihood of them happening. Policies toward journalists can be changed, access increased / reduced, etc., so the death of that journalist was not inevitable.[/quote]
Ain’t gonna happen. As long as there is conflict, there will be friendly fire. There are smarter people than you trying to find solutions and friendly fire still happens.
I also suggest you give Blueface a break, you may not like what he says and how he says it, but he has earned the right to say whatever he wants about war.
[quote="Durins BaneAin’t gonna happen. As long as there is conflict, there will be friendly fire. There are smarter people than you trying to find solutions and friendly fire still happens.[/quote]
Really, DB. My eyes have been opened. Now, open yours. The point was not that friendly fire could be eliminated, but how to minimize it. And re: smarter people than me trying to find solutions, I guess the same could be said about almost anyone posting about any topic, putting this most recent comment of yours in a tie with your earlier one for Vapid Post of the Day.
HS,
I would say that the incidents of friendly fire have already been minimized. For the amount of sorties, ordinance dropped, etc…there were very few instances for friendly fire. I would suppose that one of the main reasons is that indirect fire missions have been helped by technology (increased vision and precision). And I am guessing that training is more complete than in earlier eras.
Anyways, out of all of this I learned a new word, “vapid”. 