Who is Christian?

#470

We’ve been looking for you!

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#473
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#474

fify

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#475

Maybe you should email them with this major revelation. I’m sure they’ll be plenty embarrassed that they’ve been doing it wrong.

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#476

No comment. :slight_smile:

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#477

This just in:

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#478

belief is key is it not?

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#479

I’m a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (a Mormon). I’m a Christian.

I recognize many other Christians don’t accept that I am a Christian and I realize it boils down to a disagreement on definition.

We call ourselves Christian because we believe that Jesus Christ is the only-begotten of God, the Father. He is our Savior. He created the Earth. He is the central figure in God’s plan for us.

Most Christian denominations do not call us Christian because we reject the trinitarian-concept of the Godhead…an idea that was introduced at least a century after Christ’s death and not widely accepted until the Nicean Creed in the 4th century.

In a sense, you can call my religion polytheistic, but while we recognize the existence of more than one god, we recognize and worship only God, our Father, as the Supreme Being.

We believe in the Bible and strongly believe that our belief system is much more consistent with the Bible than trinitarian Christian faiths. In my view, numerous biblical references attest to the idea that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are separate entities, but united as one in purpose.

The idea of the trinity did not exist during the first century after Christ’s death. It was widely accepted that Christ was not coequal with God, the Father, but subordinate to him. The idea that they are coequal is, in my reading of the Bible, not supported by the bibilical text. There are certainly many statements of their “oneness,” but Christ explained this oneness in his prayer recorded in John 17. That prayer contains the following statements:

"And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."

Then while praying for his disciples, Christ said:

"that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

"The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,"

It seems to me, and to others of my faith, that Christ is explaining here how God, the Father, Himself, and the Holy Spirit are one. If his notion of “one” is the same as the trinitarian notion, why would he pray that we can all be one “just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you?” Is he suggesting that we can all become part of the Trinity God? Or is he suggesting that The Father and Christ are united in purpose and intent and that we can also be united with them in this purpose? The latter seems to be the likely intention.

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#480

“President Vladimir Putin has warned of possible bloodshed.”

I bet he did.

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split this topic #481

A post was split to a new topic: Dutch far-right leader Geert Wilders’ ex-ally converts to Islam

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#482

In western society, anyone who can get away with it will conveniently self identify as Christian. Someone who can’t get away with this will conveniently be a vicious anti-Christian, and probably a militant atheist. Only those who do neither can be taken at their word.

It’s either virtue signaling or sour grapes.

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#483

I was brought up Methodist.

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#484

Brought up Baptist but I like to separate from organized religion by calling myself a Believer… what’s it to ye?

EDIT: lol I just realized how long it has been since the last post :rofl:

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#485

Amen, brothah. Haven’t read much of this thread, but the above got my attention.

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#486

2000+ dieties are beloved in, on this planet. Not being mean, or condecending, but what makes you all think your God is the right one, or the real one?

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#487

Oh come now. Sure, gospel mss start to proliferate once Christianity begins to take off as a religion, but none of them predate the 2nd century (while the texts themselves appear to late 1st century compilations of hypothesized earlier writings and/or oral folklore). Moreover, they are full of fantastic elements, and show clear signs of redaction by editors with obvious theological agendas. Paul’s epistles are earlier, but contain little concrete information about Jesus. The Dead Sea Scrolls are not even Christian texts, so the fact that they were near-contemporaneous with early Christianity is irrelevant, except from a comparative standpoint.

I can’t help but notice that the same flawed argument is put forward by the first episode of the Alpha Course (a series of proselytizing videos by charismatic Anglicans). These people need to read more Bart Ehrmann.

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#488

Well, I choose not to debate religion and politics here because things get silly more often than not (see above). You may have the last word but I must say istatements like the above come across as bizarre. 2/3 of the New Testament contain little concrete information about Jesus? You mean like Romans 8? Genre. It’s not a history book in the modern sense. But as a work of theology, it’s beautiful and contains all the important things.

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#489

I don’t think it’s silly. Paul talks about his theology of Jesus at length, but says very, very little about actual events from his life. People may (and do) disagree about the relevance or importance of that, but it’s a valid point. 2/3 is an overstatement by the way, if we’re only talking about Paul; most bible scholars credit Paul with writing 7 of the books of the NT.

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#490

That’s not being mean it is a good question. Most Christians are not sensitive over questions or even mockery. Unlike some other religions. We even expect persecution.:+1:

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#491

I don’t believe in anything of the religious sort, but I don’t mock people who do. It’s not my place to judge people on what they believe, live your life how you choose.

Except of course, when someone thinks a kilo of bricks is heavier than a kilo of feathers, then I laugh and laugh

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