No one should die because of getting the vaccine
The planet has a huge problem with that little word “should”, IMO.
On the recent twists and turns with the AstraZeneca vaccine and the incidents of rare blood clots: this PBS report is clear and helpful in sorting through the variables based on what is currently known.
A useful summary of the adverse effects of taking Covid vaccines however only for the vaccines available in the US. Still important for risk assessment and decision-making for taking a vaccine.
According to the link I posted Pfizer list price is 14 dollars and Moderna is 18 while AZ is only 2.80 per dose and is more temperature stable but the blood clots are a definite problem
No one should lose their life
Therefore on an island where the disease is under control Taiwan should not use the AZ it should use Pfizer or Moderna
In countries where the disease is rampant the AZ can be considered as having a benefit exceeding the risk
The Europeans seem to be taking the right course using it only on the over sixties because risk to them is minimal
Still I think AZ should stop production and switch to Pfizer or Moderna under license
There is now a certified known risk of blood clots with AZ. Let’s stop it’s production
And I would not use it on under sixties in Taiwan either
Of course my wife doesn’t listen to me why would Taiwan the country ?
Wifey getting second shot of Pfizer today
She had a day with some fever snd a headache and shoulder pain with the first one
So far for me third day no headache no fever just felt tired yesterday snd no injection site pain to speak off
Wifey says Pfizer doesn’t affect older people as much
Which apparently is true
The risk is 1 in 250,000.
Would you also stop production of the contraceptive pill (clot risk 1 in 1,000)
Or stop taking long haul flights (clot risk about 1 in 4,000, increasing risk with longer flights)
The AZ vaccine is currently the only realistic vaccine option for many parts of the world which don’t have the logistics and infrastructure for maintaining the cold chain required for mRNA vaccines, or they can’t afford the much higher costs of the mRNA vaccines.
It may be that other coming vaccines (e.g. J&J, Sputnik) will also be able to used in these situations, but as has been pointed out elsewhere, they are mostly based on similar technology to the AZ vaccine, and so may well have similar risks with blood clots.
The mRNA vaccines also could have some side effects which haven’t been identified yet.
Of course it’s important that all possible side effects are thoroughly investigated, so people with higher risk factors can be identified and offered alternatives, but it’s ridiculous to suggest ceasing production for a vaccine which actually has very low risk in comparison to other medicines that are routinely taken.
And bear in mind the risks for clotting or other problems if you catch COVID is much, much higher.
I don’t think our view is dissimilar
There appears to be no choice for many in the world but perhaps Taiwan should donate its AZ vaccines and instead wait for
JJ and moderna and Pfizer ones as it’s population is not in immediate risk and Taiwan can afford the higher priced vaccines
The cold chain may be a problem but if more production was harnessed for the JJ Moderna and Pfizer the price should be a lot less
The USA reportedly paid 4 dollars per dose
Say one in 250 thousand die with Taiwan’s 23 million population that’s about 92 people
And given Taiwan has no COVID emergency that will be 92 needless deaths due to the AZ vaccine
AZ is not the best choice for Taiwan
I don’t disagree. But for some reason (likely due to the Chinese company with distribution rights in the neighbourhood), dealing with Pfizer has been a pain the &ss.
An excellent post. But it should be noted that these are the numbers provided by the UK, which has administered a very large number of AstraZeneca doses. The EU numbers are, as noted elsewhere, 1 in 100,000—still rare but less favourable.
92 is worth it until you are one of the 92. LOL!
Yes though I think this might be because of the differences in who is getting the vaccine (this may have been noted elsewhere on here or the other vaccine thread). I.E. the smaller number of receipients of the vaccine in the EU have mostly been frontline healthcare workers, who have a higher proportion of women, and many women already have a higher chance of blood clots from other common medications (the pill, HRT etc).
Whereas in the UK, the vaccine is readily available to the general population (presumably around 50/50 men and women), so this lowers the overall average risk.
Definitely it’s not good to be complacent about this, and I don’t think the agencies and companies involved are. Now that medics are aware of the clotting issue, it’s more likely it can be quickly recognised and treated if it does unfortunately occur. Plus there is a lot of effort being put into finding out what it is about the vaccine that is causing the increased risk.
Yes. And since here in Taiwan front line workers are primarily the ones being vaccinated (or, as it turns out, not being vaccinated), I imagine the EU stats may still have some relevance—though evidently not enough to lead the authorities in Taiwan to change course…
No way plenty of us want a vaccine now here. We need a vaccine to travel !!
Yes this is likely to be a requirement in the future:
Want to get on a plane? Need a jab!
Someone who won’t get it and why:
Taiwan can do what Europe is doing and restrict
The AZ vac to over sixties and perhaps add front line workers and people who intend to travel ? But the bulk of the vaccination could wait until it secures a safer vaccine .
Their first batch is expiring and they have another batch that just arrived . I hope it’s no popular so I can get vaccinated but I’m betting there will still be large demand amongst the general population .
Unfortunately, as predicted…
Two coworkers got their second shots today and walked around like
One went home
Her second Pfizer yesterday and so far no effect at
Chinese official says Chinese vaccines no good…